Boat builders help please ...

[PCSB]

Me and my lovely wife are looking at having a new boat built. I am seeing conflicting views on some boat builders and unlike other trades I can't find a "check a trade" type website that has real life reviews from people who actually had a boat made by them.

 

I've found the directory on the CRT website, but I suspect the description there is supplied by the boat builders themselves.

 

I've bookmarked around 15 builders so far so short of going to visit each one I'm not sure the best way forward just now,. I'm not sure it is allowed to ask views on a given builder as such.

 

If anyone has any pointers or can point me at a "check a narrowboat builder" type website I'd be very grateful.

 

Many thanks.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, PCSB said:

Me and my lovely wife are looking at having a new boat built. I am seeing conflicting views on some boat builders and unlike other trades I can't find a "check a trade" type website that has real life reviews from people who actually had a boat made by them.

 

I've found the directory on the CRT website, but I suspect the description there is supplied by the boat builders themselves.

 

I've bookmarked around 15 builders so far so short of going to visit each one I'm not sure the best way forward just now,. I'm not sure it is allowed to ask views on a given builder as such.

 

If anyone has any pointers or can point me at a "check a narrowboat builder" type website I'd be very grateful.

 

Many thanks.

 

Welcome - what a 'wide; question to ask for your 1st post.

 

Are you looking for a steel boat or a GRP boat, are you looking for a Narrowboat or a Widebeam boat ?

 

It would help if you could expand a little on what you are looking for, what shape / type / size you are looking for and what budget you are working to,

 

Its a bit like I want to buy a car shall I get a Lada, a Ford, a Mercedes, a Jaguar, a Rolls Royce or a Lamborghini 

 

You could spend £50,000 to £250,000 and still end up with a steel narrowboat

 

Boat building for the Inland Waterways is pretty much (apart from a couple of companies) a 'cottage industry' with a couple of blokes in a shed turning out (maybe) half a dozen boats a year.

 

A bit more detail will yield a few recommended boat-builders for you.

[PCSB]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Welcome - what a 'wide; question to ask for your 1st post.

 

Are you looking for a steel boat or a GRP boat, are you looking for a Narrowboat or a Widebeam boat ?

 

It would help if you could expand a little on what you are looking for, what shape / type / size you are looking for and what budget you are working to,

 

Its a bit like I want to buy a car shall I get a Lada, a Ford, a Mercedes, a Jaguar, a Rolls Royce or a Lamborghini 

 

You could spend £50,000 to £250,000 and still end up with a steel narrowboat

 

Boat building for the Inland Waterways is pretty much (apart from a couple of companies) a 'cottage industry' with a couple of blokes in a shed turning out (maybe) half a dozen boats a year.

 

A bit more detail will yield a few recommended boat-builders for you.

Hi Alan, thanks for responding, it is a bit of an open question so my apologies ...

 

We are looking for a Narrowboat, ideally of steel (I believe there are some aluminium ones). From my research so far the steel will be 10/6/5/4 or better if such a thing exists.

 

We would be after either a Cruiser stern or a Semi-Trad stern and reverse layout. Length between 57 and 60 foot. Budget is not set in stone but up to £120k if needed.

 

btw I used to have a Lada, only car I could repair with a lump hammer

 

Thanks,

Paul.

[The Dreamer]

53 minutes ago, PCSB said:

short of going to visit each one I'm not sure the best way forward

You will need to start somewhere, and actually getting aboard a few, opening some doors, flushing different types of loos, laying on a few beds and holding a couple tillers is likely to be where the dream will really start!  Even then, and once you have selected your builder and fitter (and they need not be the same), you will need to plan, so doing the same all over, maybe to include getting aboard some used boats, will be necessary.  The risk, otherwise is that you end up with a quarter mill’ folly... 

4 minutes ago, PCSB said:

Lada, only car I could repair with a lump hammer

In the main most (steel) boats, regardless of cost, take well to the odd repair with a lump hammer!

[PCSB]

Just now, The Dreamer said:

You will need to start somewhere, and actually getting aboard a few, opening some doors, flushing different types of loos, laying on a few beds and holding a couple tillers is likely to be where the dream will really start!  Even then, and once you have selected your builder and fitter (and they need not be the same), you will need to plan, so doing the same all over, maybe to include getting aboard some used boats, will be necessary.  The risk, otherwise is that you end up with a quarter mill’ folly... 

We have already been aboard more boats than I can remember both new and used. Some of the new boats have been disappointing to say the least, some too expensive - none quite matching what we want. We are prepared to compromise if we buy used, but don't feel we should on a new boat, so having one made seems to be the best solution.

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, PCSB said:

We are prepared to compromise if we buy used, but don't feel we should on a new boat, so having one made seems to be the best solution.

Generally though, it will still be cheaper to buy a standard offering from a new build, (where some tailoring of fittings, finishes etc is possible, but not major things, rather than having something bespoke.  Bespoke tends to push the peice up a lot.

 

Buying a "stock" new build that has already been constructed, carries far far less risk than having your iwn built, with stage ayments whilst hoping the builder actually stays solvent and in business throughout the build, and is actually capable of delivering on time.

I've read too many  horror stories over the years, and seen too many people lose tens if thousands, to ever be prepared to go the route of a bespoke boat built just for me.

[Richard10002]

7 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Generally though, it will still be cheaper to buy a standard offering from a new build, (where some tailoring of fittings, finishes etc is possible, but not major things, rather than having something bespoke.  Bespoke tends to push the peice up a lot.

 

Buying a "stock" new build that has already been constructed, carries far far less risk than having your iwn built, with stage ayments whilst hoping the builder actually stays solvent and in business throughout the build, and is actually capable of delivering on time.

I've read too many  horror stories over the years, and seen too many people lose tens if thousands, to ever be prepared to go the route of a bespoke boat built just for me.

What he said.

 

Buy one that already exists, either in stock at the builder, or a year or two old from someone who has decided it's not for them, or some other reason.

 

The risk of having a boat built, standard or bespoke, are too high IMHO.

[Tony Brooks]

Unless you are an experience narrow boater there is much to be said for getting cheaper second-hand boat as close to you spec as possible and then living with it for a year or so. Only then sell the boat and have a new one built. All to often what you do need ends up very different from what you think you need at the start.

 

If I were going for a new build I would be looking at Colecraft but then I want workmanlike, not high end. I would also not be looking for a new build.

[peterboat]

Johnathon Wilson builds a budget shell, which is still extremely well built Steve at Thorne fits these out at Thorne, and he does a great job of them, have a look in towpath talk for his advert, I say this because Johny built the shell and Steve did a refit on it when it was stretched.

[MtB]

My advice is buy a second hand one, but only a year or three old.

 

This forum is littered with horror stories of new builds that have gone wrong. With a nearly new boat it is there and finished, you can test drive it, and it will be 30% cheaper than the new one you are considering. Or you can afford a top quality s/h boat you could not afford new.

 

 

 

[Keeping Up]

I agree with the advice to buy a second hand one first, with a view to selling it on or trading it in. In our case, after almost 20 years of hiring we thought we knew exactly what we wanted; we bought a cheap old boat and over the next 4 years we had (1) tarted it up so we could sell it at a good profit (2) changed our minds on almost every aspect of what we wanted and (3) found a great boat builder, Stoke on Trent Boat Builders, who could build our new boat exactly as we dreamed it. They sold our old one on brokerage as we travelled up there, and 30 years later we still have the same boat and wouldn't change a thing!

[dmr]

I second the above posters, you are going to spend £120k on a brand new custom boat but you ask questions here that show you know little about boating. Most people appear to go through at least three boats before they work out what they really want. Get any boat now and get boating. What you think you want is almost certainly not what you really want. We got almost what we wanted first time, we did loads and loads of research but I still think we were pretty lucky.

 

....................Dave

[PCSB]

31 minutes ago, dmr said:

... but you ask questions here that show you know little about boating. ..

Nice jump to a conclusion.

 

To those that tried to answer my question, thank you. To those that offered sincere advice thank you too. I thought teh question was really simple, but apparently not.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, PCSB said:

Nice jump to a conclusion.

 

To those that tried to answer my question, thank you. To those that offered sincere advice thank you too. I thought teh question was really simple, but apparently not.

 

There is no such thing as a simple question about boats.

 

If you knew about boats, you would know this!!  

 

 

 

[dmr]

1 minute ago, PCSB said:

Nice jump to a conclusion.

 

To those that tried to answer my question, thank you. To those that offered sincere advice thank you too. I thought teh question was really simple, but apparently not.

Its still a very different (and lovely) world on the canals, rather than a website for checking out boatbuilders, towards the upper end of the market the builders will check you out (in person) and decide if they want to work with you.

 

.................Dave

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

Its still a very different (and lovely) world on the canals, rather than a website for checking out boatbuilders, towards the upper end of the market the builders will check you out (in person) and decide if they want to work with you.

 

.................Dave

 

So very true. 

 

I'm not even sure I've ever seen an advert by any of the top flight builders. If you know your boats you will know who they are, and who is most likely to be minded to build the sort of boat you want and who is not. You will be building a relationship with the builder personally, rather than a company. 

 

 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, PCSB said:

Nice jump to a conclusion.

 

To those that tried to answer my question, thank you. To those that offered sincere advice thank you too. I thought teh question was really simple, but apparently not.

Prior to my existing boat I had a ex share boat by Pinder it was a good boat but clearly built for the hire trade, more workman than exclusive. When I sold it to buy my existing boat I wanted better, I would dearly have like to buy new but as I wanted a widebeam they were out of my reach, when I found the Johnathon Wilson boat for sale by the new and used boat company I put in a really low bid for it and with a bit of haggling got it for the right money. I had it stretched and altered it to suit me all costing time effort and money, I can assure you that if you can afford it have it built right from new and enjoy it because its to your design. Whilst I saved a bucket load of money doing it my way, I if I had the cash do it your way, just my opinion

[PCSB]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Prior to my existing boat I had a ex share boat by Pinder it was a good boat but clearly built for the hire trade, more workman than exclusive. When I sold it to buy my existing boat I wanted better, I would dearly have like to buy new but as I wanted a widebeam they were out of my reach, when I found the Johnathon Wilson boat for sale by the new and used boat company I put in a really low bid for it and with a bit of haggling got it for the right money. I had it stretched and altered it to suit me all costing time effort and money, I can assure you that if you can afford it have it built right from new and enjoy it because its to your design. Whilst I saved a bucket load of money doing it my way, I if I had the cash do it your way, just my opinion

Thanks, the reason why I was looking for want of a better description for "rated narrowboat builders", was to go and visit some and decide IF we wanted or could sensibly afford a new build. It was an attempt to reduce some legwork. I try not to rush into things these days so have been researching and looking at quite a number of boats new and used. Most builders seem to be in the midlands or north west, it's 4 hours to the midlands from here and 5 to 6 hours to the north west, so just trying to narrow the search somewhat.

[Richard T]

I would second talking to Colecraft - they have a lot of experience of building to suit all budgets. https://www.colecraftboats.co.uk/Our boat is by them and is 30years old and we are happy with it. XR&D built shells for a friend who used to do fit outs - their hulls always looked good.http://www.xrandd.co.uk/ Likewise JD at Shardlow.http://jdnarrowboats.com/ Another shell builder who doesn't advertise is Alexander http://www.alexanderboatbuilders.co.uk/

These are all mid range builders - I could list others at both the top and bottom of the price ranges. You need to narrow the field down by internet searches- listen to what is said on this and other forums and then go and talk to about 6 who might be able to meet your criteria.

[system 4-50]

Colecraft are well worth a visit, even if you are not expecting to order from them.

They are not a one-man show and will not go bust on you. 

 

[David Mack]

39 minutes ago, dmr said:

Its still a very different (and lovely) world on the canals, rather than a website for checking out boatbuilders, towards the upper end of the market the builders will check you out (in person) and decide if they want to work with you.

 

.................Dave

 

And most of the top flight boatbuilders have healthy order books, and you may well have to wait some time for a build slot to come available. And they won't have much interest in getting involved in prolonged discussions about what you want if they just think you are a tyre kicker comparing them with others.

[Athy]

13 hours ago, PCSB said:

 

 

I've bookmarked around 15 builders so far so short of going to visit each one I'm not sure the best way forward just now,.

I would suggest that this is exactly what you should do. When we were seeking a builder for 'Trojan', some 15 years ago, it's exactly what we did. On about the fifth or sixth visit, we knew straight away that the builder to whom we were talking was the man whom we wanted to build a boat for us. As hinted above, we had to wait 18 months for him even to start it, but the fact that we still have the same boat indicates how satisfied we were with the job which he did.

 

You mention that you are quite distant from the premises of the majority of builders; but you also suggest, quite correctly, that several of them are based quite close to each other. If you are contemplating spending perhaps £100,000 on a new boat, surely a few nights in a Midlands hotel would not break your bank; you would then be able to do the rounds quite easily. Yes, do visit ColeCraft, Stoke On Trent Boatbuilders, Tyler Wilson, Mel Davis (who built 'Trojan') and as many more as you can.

[Guest]

I jumped in with a new build never having been on a narrowboat, it can work very well indeed. I love mine and have done so for 10 years. 

 

I recommend Andrew Crook at Brayzel in Garstang.  

 

https://www.brayzelnarrowboats.com

[PCSB]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

I would suggest that this is exactly what you should do. When we were seeking a builder for 'Trojan', some 15 years ago, it's exactly what we did. On about the fifth or sixth visit, we knew straight away that the builder to whom we were talking was the man whom we wanted to build a boat for us. As hinted above, we had to wait 18 months for him even to start it, but the fact that we still have the same boat indicates how satisfied we were with the job which he did.

 

You mention that you are quite distant from the premises of the majority of builders; but you also suggest, quite correctly, that several of them are based quite close to each other. If you are contemplating spending perhaps £100,000 on a new boat, surely a few nights in a Midlands hotel would not break your bank; you would then be able to do the rounds quite easily. Yes, do visit ColeCraft, Stoke On Trent Boatbuilders, Tyler Wilson, Mel Davis (who built 'Trojan') and as many more as you can.

Thanks for the encouragement We have already spent a good few nights in hotels, a few more won't be a problem.

1 minute ago, Winn said:

I jumped in with a new build never having been on a narrowboat, it can work very well indeed. I love mine and have done so for 10 years. 

 

I recommend Andrew Crook at Brayzel in Garstang.  

 

https://www.brayzelnarrowboats.com

Thanks, I'll take a look at them - I have family near there so it would be nice to visit them too at the same time

[jddevel]

Please do not be deterred by some comments made on this forum. You have to be a little thick skinned. I recall when I first joined asking for advice on buying I was surprised by the reaction of some. HOWEVER I have since found that the forum is a fantastic place for advice especially of the technical type rather than the emotive ones. One mans meat being anothers poison as the expression goes. As a bespoke small property developer I was always amazed by customers saying that they weren`t sure whether their for example sofa would fit. Spending in excess of £300k you`d think as they inevitably did buy a new one. Whilst many on here will correctly argue that a boat is a new concept to most that does not mean you have to give up on a life style you are use to. I`m assuming ofcourse that your search revolves around layout rather than hull build (unless a surveyor, many on here will be basing their views on  aesthetics rather than hull construction) Get yourself a list of what you need, what you`d want ask on here what is practical of those well experienced with years of living or holidaying on canal boats. (Believe me there`s not much you can`t fit in with a bit of lateral thinking) Then having come to a basic idea of must haves and hope fors present yourself to builders who understand your dreams and don`t seeyou just as profit. I too would recommend Stoke Boats who whilst not having finally bought from them I was amazed to get the £45k plus down payment back IMMEDIATELY because there was a problem with the paint finish on my sailaway based on the time they felt needed to rectify being under pressure to get a boat finished for the Crick Boat Show. That`s enough from me I`m just under a week away from finishing a £350K bungalow and really ought to get on site!!!!