Fitting out a sailaway

[blackrose]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'll take that in the spirit intended - BUT - I will suggest that it is not a particularly useful post to a newby who hasn't got a clue what will be involved, the use of the correct terminology, or the forum humour.

 

If someone, even a newby, doesn't understand the difference between the EU recreational craft directive and a residual current device, and thinks that the latter is a substitute for the former then they shouldn't even be contemplating fitting out their own boat.

 

I don't believe anyone would actually take my joke seriously. They might find it confusing but at least it will make them think and in that sense maybe it is useful.

Edited November 9, 2019 by blackrose

[ditchcrawler]

50 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

An opinion to which you are entitled.

I actually felt that showing both sides, and explaining the legal requirements and implications was (for me) very 'even handed'.

I even pointed out that I had bought a boat without the correct documentation - and I'm not in prison !

 

There are certainly many 'self-fitter-outers' on this forum that claim to have built to the RCD requirements.

I know a lot of you wont touch facebook but on there  I often see posts where someone has started a self fitout and failed to finish and have not done the work to RCD standard.

[koukouvagia]

For what it's worth, here's my experience.

I've done five DIY fit outs over the years.  The first one on a Springer was pretty dire, I must admit.  However, I'm happy with the last one.  I had a forty five foot empty space to fit out in an undercloth conversion on an historic boat.  The job comprised: insulation, lining out, fitting a bedroom, kitchen and bathroom, gas, heating, plumbing and electrics (nothing fancy).  It took over four months working two or three days a week. The cost was somewhere in the region of £10K.

I wanted a really top end back cabin, so gave the job to professionals to make and decorate.  Cost a great deal of money, but they achieved a standard I was not sure a DIY job would match.

(If you want to see what was involved on two historic boats see my websites below).

 

My only advice is not to skimp on really good tools.  I found a De Walt radial saw, for example, invaluable.

 

Afterthought:  a DIY fitter-outer won't go far wrong if he/she follows the Boat Safety Scheme code to the letter.

Edited November 9, 2019 by koukouvagia

[MtB]

52 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

If someone, even a newby, doesn't understand the difference between the EU recreational craft directive and a residual current device, and thinks that the latter is a substitute for the former then they shouldn't even be contemplating fitting out their own boat.

 

I don't believe anyone would actually take my joke seriously. They might find it confusing but at least it will make them think and in that sense maybe it is useful.

 

There was a similar thread on here a week or two ago where I asked the chap if he knew about the RCD. 

 

I got a load of attitude back rather than a 'thank you' for for pointing out the existence of requirement, which he had clearly never heard of. 

 

 

[dor]

When I did my fitout I used a surveyor to oversee the build.  He paid two visits to the fabricators (resulting in some additional welding and rewelding after pulling in the overwide sides), visited me during my work three times before finally doing the stability checks and gas certificate. Although it wasn’t actually needed he issued a BSC and prepared the RCD documentation. Also available for advice by phone at any time.

 I was an experienced boater , but wanted to be sure it was done right.  £650 (2007 price) well spent in my view.

Edited November 9, 2019 by dor

[Slim]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

If someone, even a newby, doesn't understand the difference between the EU recreational craft directive and a residual current device, and thinks that the latter is a substitute for the former then they shouldn't even be contemplating fitting out their own boat.

 

I don't believe anyone would actually take my joke seriously. They might find it confusing but at least it will make them think and in that sense maybe it is useful.

When I first saw the post my immediate reaction was to think my tablet had had a 'senior moment'. Anyway, thinking about the matter more many fitouts would require a RCD of the electrical nature. Mine has 2.

[Slim]

5 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

For what it's worth, here's my experience.

I've done five DIY fit outs over the years.  The first one on a Springer was pretty dire, I must admit.  However, I'm happy with the last one.  I had a forty five foot empty space to fit out in an undercloth conversion on an historic boat.  The job comprised: insulation, lining out, fitting a bedroom, kitchen and bathroom, gas, heating, plumbing and electrics (nothing fancy).  It took over four months working two or three days a week. The cost was somewhere in the region of £10K.

I wanted a really top end back cabin, so gave the job to professionals to make and decorate.  Cost a great deal of money, but they achieved a standard I was not sure a DIY job would match.

(If you want to see what was involved on two historic boats see my websites below).

 

My only advice is not to skimp on really good tools.  I found a De Walt radial saw, for example, invaluable.

 

Afterthought:  a DIY fitter-outer won't go far wrong if he/she follows the Boat Safety Scheme code to the letter.

 I agree fully with your comments re tools. Didn't own but had access to a radial saw. Apart frm quality tools , blades, cutters etc i found that the two most useful power tools were a thicknesser  and a faceplate sander. 

The only downside of doing just one fitout is that you end up with eny number of fittings and fixings that were cheaper to buy in bulk.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Slim

[Murflynn]

28 minutes ago, Slim said:

 

The only downside of doing just one fitout is that you end up with eny number of fittings and fixings that were cheaper to buy in bulk.

if you send them all to Bizzard he'll probably make a metal sculpture for you and tell you it's for removing boy scouts from horses' hooves.

[system 4-50]

I have a collection of bits that didn't fit. I can't throw them away because they cost money, but I'll never use them.

[Slim]

6 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I have a collection of bits that didn't fit. I can't throw them away because they cost money, but I'll never use them.

I've got a large shed/workshop full. A few examples, Jabsco foot operated water pump, couple of Sterling inverters, couple of A127 alternators, blocking diodes,  etc  etc, etc. In the loft , Mahogany trim/planks, ditto English oak. When I was fittiing ou I was known for having bits the on site chandlery didn't.

 

[The Dreamer]

7 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Buy a second hand boat. Spend your time improving it ....if you have the time. Learn about bote systems.

Totally agree...

 

...about this time last year I was stood along side what is now our boat, as she dangled over the dock on a hoist, talking to the surveyor.  “Oh look at that” he said “you’ll need to replace that perished rubber and reseat the window”.  I nodded knowingly, whilst think “how the f&£# do I do that”.  Whilst I am an able DIYer I have no real trade, or skill, so I learn as I go.  Having looked at the design of the window, on and off, for a few months, I decided to take it to pieces, ascertained what parts I needed, hit eBay and found them, then got the job done, easy really, but without the benefit, and time, to be able to play around with it, I would have been flummoxed, and the thought of doing that for each of the thousand jobs that a full fit needs, just blows my mind.

 

I guess my question to the OP, is why the need for a new boat.  These things are built like tanks, buy good used and have a play!  

[jddevel]

After nearly 50 years of hiring boats and with nearly 40 years of new house developmnt and renovation which has resulted in the accumulation of a well stocked joinery shop and wide range of tools suitable for all trades it took me 11 months at virtually 7 days a week with the hull 10 mins from home on a 6 berth 57ft semi-trad sailaway hull with engine and windows in ( windows had to come out again when professionally painted.) My new home development and design  and extended hiring gave my wife and I a good basis for design layout and we are happy on a personal basis with the result. We did it for us and with no real thought of resale as although "mature" in years I would hope my family would ultimately take over ownership. Some very honest comments have been made based on their own experience and that to me is the most important point -experience. Whether in boating and the lateral thinking required to make full use of the very limited space or the practical abilities need to end up with something you are both satisfied with and might I say proud of. None of us has a crystal ball and it`s you who must look at both your own needs (not wants) and anticipate long hours and frustrating days. Would I do it again? Not really as we`ve got what we want -a home away from home which will take us and members of my family just about every where on the cut in comfort. Cost? Certainly a good deal less expensive than a professional job but then I didn`t have wages to pay or a profit to make.

[Woodwych]

Some great stories on this thread. Mine too a labour of love and probably not one to repeat too soon as it's exhausting. I think I'm 2/3 of the way through. Bought as a spray foamed sailaway we now have all the electrics, Webasto heating, a Wallas oven in a temporary kitchen and all the walls lined out. I think I've spent 1000 hours so far and that's with the dream combination of - end of garden mooring, garage and screwfix 5 minutes away..

It has been a wonderful and all consuming project, nothing ever fits without some adjustments and working out the sequence of jobs is the perfect hypnotic!

Wish I'd filmed it all.

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, Woodwych said:

Some great stories on this thread. Mine too a labour of love and probably not one to repeat too soon as it's exhausting. I think I'm 2/3 of the way through. Bought as a spray foamed sailaway we now have all the electrics, Webasto heating, a Wallas oven in a temporary kitchen and all the walls lined out. I think I've spent 1000 hours so far and that's with the dream combination of - end of garden mooring, garage and screwfix 5 minutes away..

It has been a wonderful and all consuming project, nothing ever fits without some adjustments and working out the sequence of jobs is the perfect hypnotic!

Wish I'd filmed it all.

if you think you are 2/3 of the way, you are probably 40% of the way in reality.   Don't ask me how I know  

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

if you think you are 2/3 of the way, you are probably 40% of the way in reality.   Don't ask me how I know  

I think you are being generous at 40%.

 

It's now a lined sailaway with some cables pulled and a temporary galley ...

 

 

... admittedly with a bed and a portapotti and a stove (not just a webasto, but the wallas will help!) I would live on that

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by TheBiscuits
brain fade!

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Woodwych said:

Wish I'd filmed it all.

Start now

[Tracy D'arth]

Fitting out a new cruiser stern 57 foot hire boat with fairly basic systems, completely finished,  used to take 3 of us a month to six weeks with all the power tools available and all materials delivered to site for us. And working inside a workshop so work continued in all weathers including painting.

The fit out cost was around £550 per foot if I remember correctly, of cabin length, on a spray-foamed sail-away bare shell, no flooring or ballast, in primer.

 

That was at least 14 years ago, much more expensive now.

[LadyG]

I think we should have persuaded OP by now ?

[Tracy D'arth]

8 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Fitting out a new cruiser stern 57 foot hire boat with fairly basic systems, completely finished,  used to take 3 of us a month to six weeks with all the power tools available and all materials delivered to site for us. And working inside a workshop so work continued in all weathers including painting.

The fit out cost was around £550 per foot if I remember correctly, of cabin length, on a spray-foamed sail-away bare shell, no flooring or ballast, in primer.

 

That was at least 14 years ago, much more expensive now.

Sorry if my post seemed to be negative as regards the poster fitting his own boat, it was not intended.

The difference between nearly finished and totally complete is massive, About 20% of the total time taken I found.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Sorry if my post seemed to be negative as regards the poster fitting his own boat, it was not intended.

The difference between nearly finished and totally complete is massive, About 20% of the total time taken I found.

A bit like charging lead acid batteries. the last 5 % takes 90% of the time if you want 100% complete