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Noise pollution


CompairHolman

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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

 

(a) I've forgotten the actual number but the proportion of the population that visit a church at least once in a year is surprisingly very high - well over two thirds IIRC

 

One of the problems is that faith and culture are very much intertwined, especially in the collective psyche.

 

Does visitng a church twice in a year make someone a Christian?

 

I've been in a church at least ten times so far this year, and I am an apostate/unbeliever/heathen/atheist/humanist*. You simply cannot tell where religious faith ends and cultural norms begin. Churches can make good concert venues though.

 

 

 

*whichever you prefer

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57 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's possible that because I have, for the last couple of years anyway, travelled mostly in the holiday season, I'm being plagued by more hire boats than CCers, so that's where the noise has come from. And, if I have to moor up near other boats, I do try to pick on the ones with solar panels for that very reason.  The diesel heating systems, now, are about as noisy and as much of a nuisance as engines and more and more hire boats seem to have them installed.  It may well irritate me more than it bothers most people as musicians tend to be twitchy about noise.  I shall probably get more and more tolerant as I get more and more deaf.

I'm surprised that hire boats need to run their engine whilst moored. My recollection of hire company handovers is that such matters are not mentioned, at most a gentle warning not to overload the system. True, the last time we hired was back when inverters were early days and much less capable so the danger was less. However, once we bought our own, over a decade ago, we were surprisingly unprepared for the need to manage batteries in the way that we are almost paranoid about now! I have rarely come across a hire boat running their engine when not on the move.

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28 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I'm surprised that hire boats need to run their engine whilst moored. My recollection of hire company handovers is that such matters are not mentioned, at most a gentle warning not to overload the system. True, the last time we hired was back when inverters were early days and much less capable so the danger was less. However, once we bought our own, over a decade ago, we were surprisingly unprepared for the need to manage batteries in the way that we are almost paranoid about now! I have rarely come across a hire boat running their engine when not on the move.

Hire boat moored opposite me this summer, engine started 7 to 7:30 ish, early start I thought, but no everyone had a shower then used a hair dryer, it looked like one of those ridiculous toy things you find in hotels, this was the summer as well

No big problem tbh but just an example 

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38 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

 I have rarely come across a hire boat running their engine when not on the move.

Yes and no, in my experience. Because, as you'll remember if you were ever a hirer, hire-boaters have this urge to keep going for nine hours a day and do 20 miles and 12 locks, they arrive at their evening resting place with their batteries crammed with electricity. But if they moor for a couple of days in the same spot, then they do tend to run their engines because, as TM suggests, they need hot water. (Remarks based on observation of the ones which have parked near our mooring over the last year or so.)

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2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Very pleasant. But you've all forgotten to complete the title by saying who the band, or composer is. 

 

 

 

Its all on the YouTube page:

 

"This is "Sailing By" composed by Ronald Binge in 1963, and performed by the Alan Perry/William Gardner Orchestra, and is the version used by the BBC for its late night shipping forecast. "

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

Yes and no, in my experience. Because, as you'll remember if you were ever a hirer, hire-boaters have this urge to keep going for nine hours a day and do 20 miles and 12 locks, they arrive at their evening resting place with their batteries crammed with electricity. But if they moor for a couple of days in the same spot, then they do tend to run their engines because, as TM suggests, they need hot water. (Remarks based on observation of the ones which have parked near our mooring over the last year or so.)

One hirer told me that the company had told him he had to run the engine for eight hours a day to keep the batteries topped up, so even after about six hours cruising he'd then run the engine another two hours.  If moored up, he thought he had to run it all day.  Of course, he may have misunderstood.

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3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

One hirer told me that the company had told him he had to run the engine for eight hours a day to keep the batteries topped up, so even after about six hours cruising he'd then run the engine another two hours.  If moored up, he thought he had to run it all day.  Of course, he may have misunderstood.

 

Perhaps the hirer was told that if he didn't do eight hours' cruising a day the batteries might go flat? Same basic meaning, different nuance.

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Don't CRT advertise the canals as a place for relaxation, peace and quiet, isn't this the generally accepted as one of the best points about the waterways,  So isn't the presumption that any noise making is disturbing the peace and quiet that that originally exists ?

 

If their use is restricted then more people will realise that solar on a boat is indispensable ?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, CompairHolman said:

Don't CRT advertise the canals as a place for relaxation, peace and quiet, isn't this the generally accepted as one of the best points about the waterways,  So isn't the presumption that any noise making is disturbing the peace and quiet that that originally exists ?

 

If their use is restricted then more people will realise that solar on a boat is indispensable ?

It may well be. It's also too expensive for a fair few on the canal, and, in my case anyway, unnecessary.

Although, as Sherlock Holmes more or less said, the countryside is anything but quiet anyway. Most farm machinery now bleeps when reversing, which can be heard for miles, traffic noise is almost impossible to escape, everyone one and his brother has a permanently barking dog and as for those damn sheep...

What CRT advertises and what is true have very little correlation.

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24 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It may well be. It's also too expensive for a fair few on the canal, and, in my case anyway, unnecessary.

Although, as Sherlock Holmes more or less said, the countryside is anything but quiet anyway. Most farm machinery now bleeps when reversing, which can be heard for miles, traffic noise is almost impossible to escape, everyone one and his brother has a permanently barking dog and as for those damn sheep...

What CRT advertises and what is true have very little correlation.

Its not expensive , its a short term expense rather than a long term expense for petrol to run a generator, or the cost of wearing out your main engine. 

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

As irate country dwellers (incomers) have often said to me in my professional capacity "I moved to the country for the peace and quiet". I tend to mutter under my breath "That was your first mistake!".

 

They have never heard of industrial or agricultural plant, apparently.

Well I live amidst farmland and the only noise I hear is at harvest time when the contractors work through the night, a few days a year at most. Normal daily farming doesn't create a significant noise . 

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4 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Don't CRT advertise the canals as a place for relaxation, peace and quiet, isn't this the generally accepted as one of the best points about the waterways, 

 

And from "Schedule 5: Navigation rules"

 

775473286_Screenshot2019-11-06at19_53_23.png.1a8952051d0c53cc5d4da0f6d31855c0.png

 

I reckon that covers annoying other boaters with persistent engine running, daytime or any other time.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Its not expensive , its a short term expense rather than a long term expense for petrol to run a generator, or the cost of wearing out your main engine. 

For anyone who lives on their boat, I imagine it's a nobrainer. For those like me, it's too expensive. I spend a couple of months in the summer on it, a month in the spring, and a few more weeks here and there. I don't watch TV unless the cricket's on, I don't use the internet much, I read a lot and play music. Solid fuel stove, gas cooker and water heater. A single domestic battery runs everything else. Never needed anything more, even when I was living on. Half a day's cruising keeps it charged. 

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22 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And from "Schedule 5: Navigation rules"

 

775473286_Screenshot2019-11-06at19_53_23.png.1a8952051d0c53cc5d4da0f6d31855c0.png

 

I reckon that covers annoying other boaters with persistent engine running, daytime or any other time.

 

 

 

That is based on the 1965 General Canal Bylaws.

 

39. No person shall commit any nuisance in or on any canal.

 

CRT have never tried to enforce any of its bylaws, not one, so ....?

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

No person shall commit any nuisance in or on any canal.

One man’s meat is another man’s meat.

 

I expect that a few canoeists and anglers have a view on the “nuisance” caused by those “bloody narrowboats”!

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1 hour ago, CompairHolman said:

No, some of the licence conditions are based on bylaws but some are invented, like the 8am to 8pm generator "rule". 

 

 

 

 

It is not a 'rule' but a 'term and condition'. If you want to get a licence without the hassle of taking CaRT to court over the legality of the T&C's then you have entered into a contract to abide by the 8-8 condition. To sign and have no intention of complying is at least unethical and potentially close to fraud - ie obtaining a benefit by making a false declaration.

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52 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

It is not a 'rule' but a 'term and condition'. If you want to get a licence without the hassle of taking CaRT to court over the legality of the T&C's then you have entered into a contract to abide by the 8-8 condition. To sign and have no intention of complying is at least unethical and potentially close to fraud - ie obtaining a benefit by making a false declaration.

That's not how the law works, contract terms cannot override statute ( the law ) and public bodies are only permitted to do what the law explicitly permits them to do whereas a private person is permitted to do everything except what the law explicitly states they cannot do . No one is bound by law ( or morally ) to uphold ultra vires contract terms. 

Edited by CompairHolman
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1 hour ago, CompairHolman said:

That's not how the law works, contract terms cannot override statute ( the law ) and public bodies are only permitted to do what the law explicitly permits them to do whereas a private person is permitted to do everything except what the law explicitly states they cannot do . No one is bound by law ( or morally ) to uphold ultra vires contract terms. 

Not sure I agree.  If I rent a house the contract says I must pay my rent every month, there is no law that says I must rent a house and pay monthly, but if I break my contract and stop paying my rent, I will eventually be evicted, such is life.......,

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2 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

That's not how the law works, contract terms cannot override statute ( the law ) and public bodies are only permitted to do what the law explicitly permits them to do whereas a private person is permitted to do everything except what the law explicitly states they cannot do . No one is bound by law ( or morally ) to uphold ultra vires contract terms. 

But you would have to persuade a judge that they are indeed ultra vires. Until then no sign, no licence?

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4 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

No, some of the licence conditions are based on bylaws but some are invented, like the 8am to 8pm generator "rule". 

 

Whether it's a "rule" or not, whether you have to obey the T&Cs or not, if you actually use them as guidelines for decent behaviour you're probably on a winner and likely to make friends.  Barrack room lawyers tend to be unpopular, especially if they argue passionately that anti-social behaviour is perfectly legitimate.  It aint.  Running generators and engines for long periods and especially late in the evening, polluting both one's ears and the atmosphere, where sound travels so well and so far over water, basically screws it up for everyone else because it causes perfectly justifiable complaints from residents and other users.  All that happens is that tougher rules start to be made legally enforceable, like some of the new mooring restrictions run by car park companies.

The increase in that attitude explains a lot.

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53 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Not sure I agree.  If I rent a house the contract says I must pay my rent every month, there is no law that says I must rent a house and pay monthly, but if I break my contract and stop paying my rent, I will eventually be evicted, such is life.......,

That s a civil contract not a licence issued by a public body given the power to do so by statute.

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