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Noise pollution


CompairHolman

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10 minutes ago, rgreg said:

In fairness, I'd rather listen to a running engine than a noisy generator.

I guess that if you're trying to watch television one is as intrusive as the other. I've never had a generator so I'm not sure, though I'd certainly rather listen to my engine than listen to a genny. If fact, on more than one occasion, nearby moorers have come up and said how they enjoy its sound, and could they have a look please?

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

As long as they switch it off before 8 p.m., they are perfectly entitled to run their engine or generator. You are perhaps making this into a problem. 

Could you not move your boat to a different spot if you don't like the noise? You suggest that they had been generating power for several hours, so you would have had ample time to move.

To brand another boater as "selfish and ignorant" for simply doing what they are allowed to do and what they evidently need to do might be viewed as intolerant. Do you never run your engine for similar reasons? We certainly do, but if we do, it always gets switched off at five to eight.

 

In fairness to the OP he is complaining that someone is running a frame generator. These are much noisier than running a boat engine or a suitcase generator. They are cheap to buy but intended for noisy locations such as building sites, rather than canalside.

 

Perhaps CRT should stipulate and enforce a maximum sound pressure level?

Edited by cuthound
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9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

In fairness to the OP he is complaining that someone is running a frame generator. These are much noisier than running a boat engine or a suitcase generator. They are cheap to buy but intended for noisy locations such as building sites, rather than canalside.

 

 

That's indeed a good point. I have never owned a generator and so have no knowledge of the different types. So it's a sort of SR2 of the generator world?

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

That's indeed a good point. I have never owned a generator and so have no knowledge of the different types. So it's a sort of SR2 of the generator world?

Yup. No attempt whatsoever by the manufacturer to reduce the noise. 

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

That's indeed a good point. I have never owned a generator and so have no knowledge of the different types. So it's a sort of SR2 of the generator world?

 

Worse, the exhaust is almost unsilenced and with the engine being contained in an open steel frame. There is nothing to absorb any mechanical noise that is transmitted.

 

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/se2700p-hondagx160-portable-petrol-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtf_tBRDtARIsAIbAKe26tj158Fr1dK8rM1YwFlk5Hk3IEJ51TYALVTg1DSoTpXM5faWkjdsaAsbaEALw_wcB

 

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11 hours ago, bizzard said:

There was a time, years ago when folk only had a bath once a week, usually Friday, but I don't remember anyone stinking of sweat, body odor though, everyone stank of stew instead. It was the clothes airer racks that did it, the ones that were hoisted up to the ceiling in the kitchen  on a pulley tackle and the fumes from the pot of stew continually simmering away on the stove impregnated all the clothes as the fume all rose up. Quite a homely smell though, it was everywhere where people were, on trains, buses, cinema, cafe's, mingled with tobacco smoke too.  Young kids have very sensitive hooters.

My parents' house still  has a working airing rack in the kitchen. The various odors  that got in the clothes and towels is memorable, though not always pleasant. The stews, the bacon ( only on Sunday), the coal smoke from the open fire below (removed in the 70s), the vegetable peelings smouldering on the fire. The worst was the "lites" or cow's internal organs boiled for hours on the Revo electric cooker, thankfully not for human consumption but  they  kept the  cat and dog  happy and healthy for years

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5 minutes ago, billh said:

My parents' house still  has a working airing rack in the kitchen. 

My parents (or rather my Mum) had such a rack in the house in Sheffield where I spent my first 13 years. Over two decades later, on taking up a head of department's post in a Surrey preparatory school, I was delighted to find that there was a working example of such racks in the corridor outside the school kitchens. I suppose the teatowels which were dried thereon must have had an aroma of stew and sausages too.

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22 minutes ago, billh said:

My parents' house still  has a working airing rack in the kitchen. The various odors  that got in the clothes and towels is memorable, though not always pleasant. The stews, the bacon ( only on Sunday), the coal smoke from the open fire below (removed in the 70s), the vegetable peelings smouldering on the fire. The worst was the "lites" or cow's internal organs boiled for hours on the Revo electric cooker, thankfully not for human consumption but  they  kept the  cat and dog  happy and healthy for years

Our school dinners definitely often contained Lites in the horrible stew ladled out to us over two dollops of lumpy mashed potatoes. A lady called Lil,   Lil's always seem to be the bossy bossess of kitchens , canteens ect, you come across them everywhere, even in Tesco canteens, always be-turbaned ordering everyone about. We dreaded  seeing Lil come crashing out of the kitchen trundling her trolley along laden with our dinners, she slopped the food about in a very carefree manner, in a hurry to get back into the kitchen to have a fag I expect.       God save the Lil's.

Edited by bizzard
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12 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

You'd think so, but I've experienced plenty of boaters mooring up late afternoon and running the engine for another three hours. The almost incessant noise is one reason I won't mind giving it all up quite so much. 

This would be me, usually if I'm moving then the batteries will have been run down on the couple of days preceding; either because I wasn't home between 8-8 or because I didn't want to annoy whoever was moored locally. 

Upon arriving at the new mooring I will often leave the engine running or get the genny out. However I do feel guilty about causing a noise for my new neighbours. Unfortunately it's necessary for these pesky Pb batteries.

 

In effect the move I've done is unlikely to be sufficient to fully charge the batteries so some running upon cruise end is required 

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14 minutes ago, sirweste said:

This would be me, usually if I'm moving then the batteries will have been run down on the couple of days preceding; either because I wasn't home between 8-8 or because I didn't want to annoy whoever was moored locally. 

Upon arriving at the new mooring I will often leave the engine running or get the genny out. However I do feel guilty about causing a noise for my new neighbours. Unfortunately it's necessary for these pesky Pb batteries.

 

In effect the move I've done is unlikely to be sufficient to fully charge the batteries so some running upon cruise end is required 

Me too.  I'll frequently move my boat on for an hour or so after work.  Set off about 5.  Moor about 6.  Turn off engine about 8.

 

With regards to the OP, I'll wager the  8-8 rule was in place when you got your boat.  That's the rule - deal with it.  The marvelous thing about boats, is you can move them if you don't like it where you are. 

 

For me personally, when I know I'm going to run my genny, I look for a place with some existing background noise (by a main road for example), or a place completely away from everyone.  That's just trying to be reasonable.  Sometimes such a place is hard to find though.

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I got the impression from the OP that he's on a paid mooring, presumably his permanent one. So he can't really move off. 

There's a guy on the Macc, on a permanent mooring with several others, who more or less always runs either his engine or genny until about 11pm. And it aint quiet. It's right opposite a rather nice visitor mooring where for some reason no one ever stays more than one night. Complain, you get a mouthful of abuse. He's done it for years. 

Basically, most boaters are as considerate as they can be, and a few are a total pain in the arse. Trouble is, the latter pollute the area for miles as sound travels well over and through water. 

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17 hours ago, bizzard said:

There was a time, years ago when folk only had a bath once a week, usually Friday, but I don't remember anyone stinking of sweat, body odor though, everyone stank of stew instead. It was the clothes airer racks that did it, the ones that were hoisted up to the ceiling in the kitchen  on a pulley tackle and the fumes from the pot of stew continually simmering away on the stove impregnated all the clothes as the fume all rose up. Quite a homely smell though, it was everywhere where people were, on trains, buses, cinema, cafe's, mingled with tobacco smoke too.  Young kids have very sensitive hooters.

In my world bath night was always Sunday, ie the night before school.  Even when we finally got a proper bath I don't remember my parents ever using it, there was never enough hot water and no-one actually liked bathing anyway.  I do remember a lot of old folks saying it was bad for you and I'm quite sure my grandad never took a bath after he finished working down the pit.  He farted constantly ("where's that bloody cat...") but didn't smell unpleasant.  My grandma on the other hand smelled of boiled cabbage.  You couldn't avoid boiled cabbage in those days schools used it by the truckload but it was everywhere, actually that probably explains my grandad's flatulence.

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, bizzard said:

There was a time, years ago when folk only had a bath once a week, usually Friday, but I don't remember anyone stinking of sweat, body odor though, everyone stank of stew instead. It was the clothes airer racks that did it, the ones that were hoisted up to the ceiling in the kitchen  on a pulley tackle and the fumes from the pot of stew continually simmering away on the stove impregnated all the clothes as the fume all rose up. Quite a homely smell though, it was everywhere where people were, on trains, buses, cinema, cafe's, mingled with tobacco smoke too.  Young kids have very sensitive hooters.

it still exists  a customer of mine has same said pulley and rack system and its amazing , you should only bathe after toil and only then

I shower once every 3 months and still smell like a daisy in between

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9 hours ago, Athy said:

As long as they switch it off before 8 p.m., they are perfectly entitled to run their engine or generator. You are perhaps making this into a problem. 

Could you not move your boat to a different spot if you don't like the noise? You suggest that they had been generating power for several hours, so you would have had ample time to move.

To brand another boater as "selfish and ignorant" for simply doing what they are allowed to do and what they evidently need to do might be viewed as intolerant. Do you never run your engine for similar reasons? We certainly do, but if we do, it always gets switched off at five to eight.

I don't think that that is a sufficient argument: there are plenty of things that we are entitled to do but which are morally or socially not acceptable. Insisting 'on your rights' is a quick way to make many enemies! Remember, there may just come a time when you need your neighbour's help - and might be less than chuffed if, as he/she walks away they are heard to mutter, "but I'm entitled to walk away"

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1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

I don't think that that is a sufficient argument: there are plenty of things that we are entitled to do but which are morally or socially not acceptable. Insisting 'on your rights' is a quick way to make many enemies! Remember, there may just come a time when you need your neighbour's help - and might be less than chuffed if, as he/she walks away they are heard to mutter, "but I'm entitled to walk away"

True, but if you don’t charge your batteries then you may as well live in a cave.  It is difficult to balance the requirements of a ‘working whilst living on a boat’ lifestyle against those of your neighbours without shore power.  Living ‘off grid’ means battery charging and fossil fuel fires, which is not really compatible with land based neighbours etc.

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5 hours ago, Dave_P said:

With regards to the OP, I'll wager the  8-8 rule was in place when you got your boat.  That's the rule - deal with it.  The marvelous thing about boats, is you can move them if you don't like it where you are.

It was there when I bought mine, too.  But then, we all had 12v TVs, a couple of fluorescent lights, gas water heater, solid fuel stove and washed stuff by hand in the sink.  The difference now, when most people seem to run the engine to power their TV screen, microwave or washing machine, is vast.  And, in one case on an otherwise peaceful day at Tixall wide, when I asked the bloke next door if he was going to run his engine all day (after three hours of it) so he could run his business in Australia from the computers on his boat.  Yes, he said, why, is there a problem.  No, I said politely (because it was between 8 and 8), and buggered off.  What used to be a really nice place to stop for a day is now more or less unbearable.

So yes, we deal with it. But it's ruined the cut as a quiet place, and very hard now to find anywhere to moor where the sight of another boat tying up doesn't fill you (some of us anyway) with dread.  I can see why houses along the canal complain to councils about noise and pollution and why mooring places are cut back.  There are more liveaboards with more facilities, more hire boats with the same who don't know or care about the guidelines.

There are perfectly good reasons for it (and for the newcomers, of course, it's the norm) and I'm glad everyone is having a nice time.    But I'm not so much any more - for me, after thirty years of it, the endless noise pollution is mostly what will force me to kick the boating habit. And you usually can't avoid it just by moving, because mooring places are not that frequent any more, and on virtually every one is someone with a perfectly good reason for running their engine or genny.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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8 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

In fairness to the OP he is complaining that someone is running a frame generator. These are much noisier than running a boat engine or a suitcase generator. They are cheap to buy but intended for noisy locations such as building sites, rather than canalside.

 

Perhaps CRT should stipulate and enforce a maximum sound pressure level?

They can't even enforce the 8 to 8 "rule"

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27 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I don't think that that is a sufficient argument: there are plenty of things that we are entitled to do but which are morally or socially not acceptable. 

...of which running one's engine when one needs to during agreed hours is not one.

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I think it's difficult to draw comparisons with past and present noise levels simply because you have to factor in the changes in personal tolerance levels over time.   I suspect most of us on here would admit to our threshold of tolerance having lowered over the years, I'm certainly much more prickly than I used to be and not just with noise nuisance..   

 

I reckon people get wound up about these issues because they bear the frustration of not being able to approach the "culprit", but it may also be the case that, when considering if it's reasonable to react to a nuisance in this way, you conclude that it isn't, and it's your personal inability to live and let live that's the problem. 

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6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I got the impression from the OP that he's on a paid mooring, presumably his permanent one. So he can't really move off. 

There's a guy on the Macc, on a permanent mooring with several others, who more or less always runs either his engine or genny until about 11pm. And it aint quiet. It's right opposite a rather nice visitor mooring where for some reason no one ever stays more than one night. Complain, you get a mouthful of abuse. He's done it for years. 

Basically, most boaters are as considerate as they can be, and a few are a total pain in the arse. Trouble is, the latter pollute the area for miles as sound travels well over and through water. 

Open your doors and windows and get your Trombone out Arthur.I suggest warming up with Wagner extracts(Ride of the Valkiry, Flying Dutchman,Mastersingers etc) Wagner wrote some good Trombone parts.Finish up with The Acrobat.All played of course at full volume!

Your noisy neighbour will be begging for mercy.

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Just now, Mad Harold said:

Open your doors and windows and get your Trombone out Arthur.I suggest warming up with Wagner extracts(Ride of the Valkiry, Flying Dutchman,Mastersingers etc) Wagner wrote some good Trombone parts.Finish up with The Acrobat.All played of course at full volume!

Your noisy neighbour will be begging for mercy.

or buy a Banjo

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