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Steve Heywood has a go at steering President


Tonka

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55 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I don't recall him having any particular title.

In the case of Adamant the title of the bloke in the engine hole is usually 

’owner’ 

Phil has a vested interest in doing what he is told by all and sundry steerers because he pays the insurance.

28 minutes ago, booke23 said:

Meanwhile Steve Haywood has now made it to Tilbury docks on the Thames, and was very displeased to find a cruiser moored in his spot! ? 

 

 Ship.gif.ff41904964648690923c5d104a76f08b.gif

That’ll polish out.

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15 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

In the case of Adamant the title of the bloke in the engine hole is usually 

’owner’ 

Phil has a vested interest in doing what he is told by all and sundry steerers because he pays the insurance.

That’ll polish out.

Phil is a brave man as he had never met me before and just had a note in his window saying steerer required. I volunteered and was off around the parade.

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

Revering to an earlier question, was there an official name for the bloke in the engine room?

 

In the context of the actions shown in the video, I would have thought "Scapegoat" would be an appropriate title. ?

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4 hours ago, pete harrison said:

Not to mention the women dressing up as men (apparently they claim it is unlucky to have a women on a steamer hence women dressing as men. Perhaps they would fare better if the men dressed up as women - but lets not go there) :captain:

 

Having once boated on President I won't be doing so again.  But with regard to the costumes, I think the argument is that the present day crew (male and female) are all dressed in what is suposedly the apparel of the original steamer crews (who would all have been men). The real question is surely around the authenticity or otherwise of waistcoats and red spotted neckerchiefs.

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

 

Having once boated on President I won't be doing so again.  But with regard to the costumes, I think the argument is that the present day crew (male and female) are all dressed in what is suposedly the apparel of the original steamer crews (who would all have been men). The real question is surely around the authenticity or otherwise of waistcoats and red spotted neckerchiefs.

I would prefer them to concentrate their effort on the boats appearance and improving their skills in operating them. Steamers were the pride of the fleet and all of this dressing up nonsense is just a distraction that helps to create a pantomime rather than a performance :captain: 

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1 minute ago, pete harrison said:

I would prefer them to concentrate their effort on the boats appearance and improving their skills in operating them. Steamers were the pride of the fleet and all of this dressing up nonsense is just a distraction that helps to create a pantomime rather than a performance :captain: 

Well said. My Great uncle owned two boats that he worked out of Goole, My Dad was a ( boy ) on one when he first started. Whilst these were not narrowboats, working boatmen are in my family going back many years Hull, and Goole and Dad used to run mainly out of Goole to Nottingham and delivering to the wharf just prior to meadow lock and other points. I have a few though alas not many fotos somewhere of them and standard clothing styles didnt exist apart from the skippers flat hat and usualy a woolie pully. Working blokes wore whatever they had and were comfortable in. The reason there are not many fotos mum says is because it was just their job and why would people fotograph themselves at work? after all it wasnt cheap taking fotos and money was quite scarce. In fairness I have very very few fotos of myself in uniforms of my jobs or indeed Skippering such as the Nottingham Princess. Bye the way just for interest Great Uncle had his cabin he lived in and Dad used the wheelhouse on one boat and had a bed roll he slept on under the steerers bench seat. I have started to ask Mum more of late, her short term memory is non existant she cannot remember ten minutes ago but can name kids in her class at school in 1924.

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In the RN  at Dartmouth most small boats were driven by sound signals from the helmsman to the stoker, in the same way that HM's war canoes were driven by wheel, telegraph and speed orders to the coxswain and engine room.

Any use of Full (ahead or astern) from the bridge meant the MEO could expect the order giver to appear bearing a large quantity of good Scotch soon after any  fuss requiring the extreme telegraph position had been sorted out.

N

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55 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

I would prefer them to concentrate their effort on the boats appearance and improving their skills in operating them. Steamers were the pride of the fleet and all of this dressing up nonsense is just a distraction that helps to create a pantomime rather than a performance :captain: 

 

Well I would agree with that.

When we boated with them it was with an experienced and capable steerer and engineman, who obviously had good understanding of the other's actions, so that the whole operation proceeded well. My problem was the completely unacceptable attitude to my wife from some of the other crew members (which was nothing to do with her attire). I have heard since of other women who had problems with the same individuals, and have consequently had no further involvement with the boat. 

I suspect that in the intervening 30 years those individuals have moved on, but the points Pete raises are valid issues, and I now have other boating I would rather do.

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5 hours ago, Athy said:

En passant, you have raised an interesting point. What were they called, back in the days of commercial steam narrowboat operation. Possibilities might be:

-fireman

-engineer

-stoker

-second man

-grease monkey (this is not a serious suggestion).

 

 

Does anyone know?

I recall seeing the term ‘engine driver’ on census information relating to an FMC steamer but I’m still trying to find such a record to be certain.

 

JP

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6 hours ago, Athy said:

En passant, you have raised an interesting point. What were they called, back in the days of commercial steam narrowboat operation. Possibilities might be:

-fireman

-engineer

-stoker

-second man

-grease monkey (this is not a serious suggestion).

 

 

Does anyone know?

Greasy Ocker.

 

  • Laurence Hogg
  •  

"Greasy Ockers" were the men who ran & maintained the steamers for FMC out of the Ocker Hill depot. A lot of boats were repaired there although curiously it does not get a mention in later books written about FMC. The yard also had a pumping station using the Ocker Hill tunnel (the BCN's forgotten tunnel, not navigable) to draw water from the Walsall level. The depot became the main BCN workshops and from what I understand the workers there had the nickname until it closed with the opening of Bradley Workshops.

 

Only one retaining wall survives at the site, a blue brick one in a car park, there is no upper level sign of the tunnel but the bottom is (was) visible in recent times

Edited May 19, 2016 by Laurence Hogg

 

 

 

Edited by Ray T
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3 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

I met one of the River Weaver lock keepers whilst out boating last month He told me The Daniel Adamson struck Marsh Lock because the captain asked for Hard Astern and was given Full Forward. 

One of the main reasons why engine room orders were shouted back was to create a closed loop system that allowed the bridge to correct if misheard. Or so I believe. 

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4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Well said. My Great uncle owned two boats that he worked out of Goole, My Dad was a ( boy ) on one when he first started. Whilst these were not narrowboats, working boatmen are in my family going back many years Hull, and Goole and Dad used to run mainly out of Goole to Nottingham and delivering to the wharf just prior to meadow lock and other points. I have a few though alas not many fotos somewhere of them and standard clothing styles didnt exist apart from the skippers flat hat and usualy a woolie pully. Working blokes wore whatever they had and were comfortable in. The reason there are not many fotos mum says is because it was just their job and why would people fotograph themselves at work? after all it wasnt cheap taking fotos and money was quite scarce. In fairness I have very very few fotos of myself in uniforms of my jobs or indeed Skippering such as the Nottingham Princess. Bye the way just for interest Great Uncle had his cabin he lived in and Dad used the wheelhouse on one boat and had a bed roll he slept on under the steerers bench seat. I have started to ask Mum more of late, her short term memory is non existant she cannot remember ten minutes ago but can name kids in her class at school in 1924.

Interesting, my Grandfather also worked out of Goole on the Tom Puddings , we did manage to find a picture of him (He's the one with the watchchain), haven't a clue what the boat he was photographed on was though.

image.png.1bd011054bff50eaa8732fa90beaa722.png

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10 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Interesting, my Grandfather also worked out of Goole on the Tom Puddings , we did manage to find a picture of him (He's the one with the watchchain), haven't a clue what the boat he was photographed on was though.

image.png.1bd011054bff50eaa8732fa90beaa722.png

Cool. My old Dad was on barges, the sort that used to be in the Goole museum ? One had a wheelhouse and wheel steering the other was completely open with a long arched tiller. H eworked them full time from 1934 till 1939 when he became a merchantman in many places to include The North Atlantic where the ship he was steering was torpedoed and he was part of operation pedestal in 1942 and entered the harbour in Malta, worth looking up if you are at all interested in ww2.

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12 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Interesting, my Grandfather also worked out of Goole on the Tom Puddings , we did manage to find a picture of him (He's the one with the watchchain), haven't a clue what the boat he was photographed on was though.

image.png.1bd011054bff50eaa8732fa90beaa722.png

There are some records of A&CN boatmen surviving, such as the disciplinary one below for a tom pudding tug man. Northern boatmen wore a variety of work clothing, as seen in the photo of L&LC men on steamers at Bingley. The gansey, see http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/Gansey pattern.pdf, was worn at some time by most boatmen, and one or two are doing so in the photo. The gansey was worn by boatmen on all wide northern waterways.

W Tune, R Sykes 641.jpg

Agate & Amy.jpg

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Whilst I have only ever seen NB President in the flesh once, coming out of Limehouse lock to enter the Thames, incidently a former ship mate of mine, a deepsea Chief Engineer, was in the engine hole on that occasion...wearing a MN White boiler suit and a Greese Topped Engine Driver ( badged GWR if I remember) hat..but thats anouther dit.     I do have experince of giving orders to manover a vessel and the delay of waiting for them to be carried out.

 

Working as a Mooring Master in West Africa I was bringing a German Flagged with a Russian Captain, Filipino Crew tanker alongside a much larger one.   As we were the smaller ship we had to do all the manouvering which involved me leaning over the starbord bridge rail with the Captain alongside me to judge the distances whilst 40ft away in the wheelhouse there was a helmsman and someone manning the engine telegraph.  The Ship DID have a set of controls on the winf...but they hadnt worked for a while appartnently.       Coming alongside (inbetween electrical stroms) with 4 large yokohama fenders made fast, i gave my helm and engine orders to the Captain who then repeated them to his bridge team to carry out who when they had done so shouted back that was done.    

 

It was only after safely alongside without incident that I found out there was other issues wiuth the ship, the engine had to be under local control with an engineer standing next to tthe throttle in the engine room (rather than the nice Engine Control Room) in order to make sure that the engine did what the telegraph told it to do and also there was an issue with the helm repeater so that they had a cadet stationed in the steering flat with a VHF radio to the helmsman to confirm that rudder was pointing the direcion that the helmman had thought he had put it!

 

Was an intresting job....      

 

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