Johnson F5B raw water pump Thorneycroft adaption

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That doesn't look like his part :

 

 

 

 

Could the skew gear have moved along the shaft? There does look to be blueing to the left of the skew gear. Was it pinned, and the pin has sheared for some reason?

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

21 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Could the skew gear have moved along the shaft? There does look to be blueing to the left of the skew gear. Was it pinned, and the pin has sheared for some reason?

I don't think so, look at the first photo in post 1. The OP says he used heat on the shaft and then cut  a part of with an angle grinder.

[Boater Sam]

The cutaway engine drawing looks unlike any BMC engine I have ever see.

Its wet linered, combustion chamber in piston bowl, direct injection. Rocker box looks Ford or GM/Bedford to me.

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

The cutaway engine drawing looks unlike any BMC engine I have ever see.

Its wet linered, combustion chamber in piston bowl, direct injection. Rocker box looks Ford or GM/Bedford to me.

Agree, I thought Ford.

[bizzard]

Deffinitelly Ford.  Probably an old Cost Cutter 4D marinized and called  ''Parsons Pike''. usually 6v electrics.  Later Ford 4D's were of course 12v and asll look similar.

Edited November 9, 2019 by bizzard

[Alan de Enfield]

29 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Agree, I thought Ford.

Stranger and stranger - the 'cutaway' is prefixed with "154 Engine Unit " but is shown as a 6-cylinder (or, is that another page ?)

 

All I can find about the 154 shows :

 

The Thornycroft 154 is a 4 cylinder, 4 stroke, vertical, inline 2.52L diesel engine, based on the BMC2.52 series engine block, once the most popular fitment in London black taxis. This replaced the ageing BMC2.2 engine which was never marinised by Thornycroft.

 

Over the years the Thornycroft 154 saw many production modifications, replacing the cast iron manifolds with marine grade aluminium and then the modern combined heat exchanger manifold units. The Thornycroft 154 was most popular in its heat exchanger cooled configuration which proved extremely popular in medium size hire fleets and private cruisers, for example Seamaster.

 

The internals of the Thornycroft 154 engine remained very consistent throughout production, consequently there are not many variations on spare parts. Many items are difficult to obtain, or are now obsolete, as production and tooling was moved to India and the factory ceased production a few years later.

 

From the MS-06-154 Thornycroft leaflet, ratings are as follows:

1500RPM 28BHP 7.36LPH, 2000RPM 37BHP 9.00LPH, 2500RPM 45BHP 10.95LPH, 3000RPM 50BHP 12.60LPH

Intermittent rating was 60BHP.

 

Maybe this firm can assist as they list / show spares for the 154 engines.

 

http://hamptonsafaribc.org/files/BMC-Diesel-Engine-Parts.pdf

 

Or, could it be something like this but for the 2.5 ?

 

https://www.charnleys.com/part/leyland-light/12h260/drive-spindle

 

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, Cabrio said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Item 17 looks to be the part in question.

 

I have the parts manual for the 154 engine and the second picture (of the cutaway engine) does not appear in that manual.

 

Summat strange with the OP's pictures.

 

 

 

[Cabrio]

Ok guys and thanks again for all the efforts,

Some people seem to be getting mislead by not reading the very first post so I shall try something different.

But notes to add are , 

 

 

 

 

 

This first photo shows the pump shaft with grooves in the bearings that I cut . You can clearly see the roll pin hole and the grease mark that shows how deep it fits into the coupling shaft. It is in line with the pump body which it slips into and then the impeller is pushed onto it.

 

 

If you look at this photo carefully the coupling shaft ( on the left ) is resting next to the pump shaft ( that is on the right with two bearings on it ). It has a rounded end with no splines on it as the photos of the other pumps that people are attaching to this post show. 

The very far right end accommodates the impeller when inserted into the pump. If you look even closer you will see a whole that is drilled into the pump shaft to accommodate the roll pin. If you look at the coupling shaft on the left carefully you will see the hole drilled through  that , that accommodates the roll pin. When the piece on the right is inserted into the coupling shaft it travels approx 12mm untill the two holes line up and roll pin is the inserted. The shaft then becomes one piece. as in this photo

 

 

 

When they are inserted into the pump casing the impeller end is approx inline withe the face of the pump casing (Right hand side in this photo) and the coupling shaft protrudes out of the left side 55-60mm approx. The coupling shaft the inserts into the engine approx 55-60mm whem pump is fitted.

I cant add a photo to illustrate this at the moment as the coupling shaft is with an engineer

 

The engine block diagram ( IT IS NOT OF MY ENGINE) is to purely give an indication to the area the of an engine where my pump and the coupling shaft ( scew piece ) are located. It is not of my engine.

Apologies for the size of photos as I cant reduce them for some reason.

Anyway hope that makes it clearer for some.

I am after the coupling shaft, part 17 in previous diagram

Many thanks

[Tony Brooks]

But remember that if there is no need for that rev counter drive you may be able to fit a standard pump with a flange that will fit against the timing cover, not the extension housing. Do a way with the extension housing, get a pump with a flange that lines up with the holes in the timing cover and make sure the splined pump drive (new pump remember, like the one Alan linked to) and the job is done without the need for the skew gear shaft you cut.

 

Have you thought about investigating how much it would cost to have your exiting extension shaft machined and sleeved so you can use your old pump & pump shaft. It would mean doing away with the rev counter if you have one or changing it for an alternator driven one.

[Cabrio]

Hi Tony,

Yes I had already explored having one made and that is why I was on here, I had been quoted a stupid amount.

Anyway I have eventually found one, Boulter Marine on the broads, they said they had lots of stuff and dont throw anything so if anyone needs parts please give them a call.

The coupling drive I could not do without as it not only drives the tacho but the oil pump of all things, so no options possible other than to replace. The pump shaft has also' had it' due to my attention and have found a replacement from Aquafax- Luton. Again pricey ( and again very rare) for what is but I needed it as it has no splines on it like all the others I found or that were suggested.

Thanks to all that tried to help and now back of to France to finish the job I started, simply to change the bearings in the pump,and run the engine so I can winterise it. What nightmare it has been.

[Tony Brooks]

Drives the oil pump!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Either the 2.5 is radically different to the 2.2 and all the other engines I have worked on or someone does not understand. That puts the oil pump in the timing cover and the timing cover projects in front of the sump. I agree it looks like an oil pump drive but not in that position on the engine.

[Boater Sam]

I have never seen an engine with a skew gear oil pump drive in the timing gear case, highly improbable.