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jeannette smith harrison

Far Cotton Wharf

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Looking for birth location please .

Copy of one of my Grandads siblings  birth cert says born at far cotton wharf 

I have found some images of far cotton but nothing on the wharf also a Cotton end keeps showing up .

so I am not sure if they are the same place so wondering if one being its right name the other a name called by the boatmen

Birth place given is canal boat Ware but cert gives fathers occ as Captain of Canal boat Naro so I am assuming Ware to be the Butty as

this shows them also on board Ware in the 1911 census but with a different motor .

I am attempting to add Birth location pictures & info to my family tree.

So any info or help would be great 

 

104_4850.JPG

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Far Cotton Wharf belonged to a group of wharves on the Nene at Northampton close to the junction with the Grand Junction Canal Northampton Branch. WARE could have been involved in an aspect of merchandise carrying to the warehouses there or in the trade with one of the Nene Flour Mills 

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4 hours ago, jeannette smith harrison said:

Birth place given is canal boat Ware but cert gives fathers occ as Captain of Canal boat Naro so I am assuming Ware to be the Butty as

this shows them also on board Ware in the 1911 census but with a different motor .

 

So any info or help would be great 

Motor's were few and far between in 1911, so were these both horse boats operating as a pair ?

 

I am having some trouble finding WARE and NARO (NERO ?) in my records, which are quite extensive for this period - assuming they are canal boats of course :captain:

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I remember talking to the Far Cotton History Group several years ago so it is possible they can help you Jeannette. I think Associated Canal Carriers, pre GUCCC operated from Far Cotton Wharf and the Black Shed on the Arm.

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Ah, the ACCC was a later operation using motor boats, and yes I understand Far Cotton was their depot.

 

It would be of use to know the name of the other boat on the 1911 census.

 

This was also the area where the LNWR had their goods depot and George Bird was coal merchant at the wharf in the 1870's.

 

In earlier times Pickfords operated to Coton End, then there were other carriers.  Yet if the name was copied wrongly for WARE other possibilities occur-John Griffith, I see named his boats after rivers, and there was a WEAVER, in 1901. The reasoning being if the master submitted the details to the census  and his spelling was poor then the records would only reflect what had been given.

 

Boats working in pairs be they be two horse fawn craft, or not, was common to carrying goods.

Edited by Heartland

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Could be the names of the boats were incorrectly entered.

 

I've seen an inspection of a Thomas Clayton boat WEAR in 1909 and in 1912 with a  J. Harrison as captain. In 1912 it was paired with Clayton's SOAR. 

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44 minutes ago, Chris M Jones said:

Could be the names of the boats were incorrectly entered.

Incorrectly entered is certainly my opinion, and seems quite common on Census records which is why I do not use them :captain:

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Gas works traffic is another reasonable explanation. There was a gas works at Northampton that was placed up river (Nene) and past the Breweries. How Claytons collected the tar/ and or/ gas water might mean them going to the works perhaps.

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Many thanks Gentlemen for your input.

Yes there where many mistakes made due to the fact that until I came along not one of my 6 generations of working Canal Boatmen could read or write .

So I only have the stories told as a child in the  boatmans lingo to go on hence why I often name places the way I was told they where called

 .How many of you today have spoken to a true old boatman or woman & struggled to understand some of their words ?

 no wonder as names & info was given verbally there where so many mistakes 

iv enclosed a larger scan of said cert for Aunt who married into Charlie  Atkins boating family  as I only showed a small part due to it blurring as enlarged  mother was Annie Stevens ( My connection to uncle Allen

Caggy Stevens ) 

Chris the 1911 Census is my G Grandad  they where loading at Durham Wharf Brentford  around the time .

  Have also scanned a close up  copy of boats named 

Heartland two other siblings where born on Clayton Boats & G Grandad gives his occupation as Canal tar boatman in both of these have no boat names just numbers that no has been able to work out to date .

 

104_4848.JPG

104_4856.JPG

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Might the name of the boat taken as 'Naro', also be a incorrectly transcribed from the spoken word as :- "Canal Boat, narrow"?

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1 hour ago, jeannette smith harrison said:

Many thanks Gentlemen for your input.

Yes there where many mistakes made due to the fact that until I came along not one of my 6 generations of working Canal Boatmen could read or write .

So I only have the stories told as a child in the  boatmans lingo to go on hence why I often name places the way I was told they where called

 .How many of you today have spoken to a true old boatman or woman & struggled to understand some of their words ?

 no wonder as names & info was given verbally there where so many mistakes 

iv enclosed a larger scan of said cert for Aunt who married into Charlie  Atkins boating family  as I only showed a small part due to it blurring as enlarged  mother was Annie Stevens ( My connection to uncle Allen

Caggy Stevens ) 

Chris the 1911 Census is my G Grandad  they where loading at Durham Wharf Brentford  around the time .

  Have also scanned a close up  copy of boats named 

Heartland two other siblings where born on Clayton Boats & G Grandad gives his occupation as Canal tar boatman in both of these have no boat names just numbers that no has been able to work out to date .

 

104_4848.JPG

104_4856.JPG

Is that the document you think says “Naro”? To me it’s entirely plausible that it says “Ware”. It may be that the actual boat was called WEAR - that’s clearly “Wear and Soar” on the second document - but it’s lot more plausible than “Naro” which doesn’t really make any sense as a word or a name.

 

I think a lot of the problem with census information is in the transcription - some of which are plainly nonsensical - but there are also a good number of entries that are unreadable.

 

I’d never really considered exactly where Far Cotton wharf was as I know the broad area. My great uncle Henry drowned there.

 

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg

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2 minutes ago, SUIGENERIS said:

 Hi. Don't forget there is a Far Coton north of Mkt Bosworth on the Ashby Canal. Think it's bridge 37. Cheers. Mick

The canal also goes through Coton in Nuneaton - and I’ll be doing exactly that tomorrow morning - but this one is definitely Cotton - with a double t - in Northampton.

 

JP

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17 minutes ago, jeannette smith harrison said:

Captain Pegg

I also had one of mine drowned there & some of my Buckby Nixons where born there .

The top of the Birth  cert says Hardingstone county  of Northampton & Northampton county brough 

To be accurate it was my great great great uncle Henry Drakeford who drowned there in 1903. Death registered in Hardingstone. I trust we’re not taking about the same person? I’m guessing not. Drownings were far from uncommon.

 

JP

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Not to my knowledge as my Drowning was from the Monk's ,

I have hovever since we last spoke found a William & Sarah Neal with a 4 year old adopted ?? on what looks like could be vessel Chess also in Brentford in 1911

Also another distant  connection a Peter Boswell|  Married an Elizabeth Drakeford   daughter of James Henry a Boatman & signed in the presence of Andrew Humphries 

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8 hours ago, jeannette smith harrison said:

Not to my knowledge as my Drowning was from the Monk's ,

I have hovever since we last spoke found a William & Sarah Neal with a 4 year old adopted ?? on what looks like could be vessel Chess also in Brentford in 1911

Also another distant  connection a Peter Boswell|  Married an Elizabeth Drakeford   daughter of James Henry a Boatman & signed in the presence of Andrew Humphries 

I don’t think that particular William Neal is any relation of mine. There were two - if not three - Neal boating families. Nonetheless I’ll check it out. Thanks.

 

The Elizabeth Drakeford who married Peter Boswell was the grand niece of Henry Drakeford who drowned in Far Cotton Wharf. The Drakeford family were (probably) from Cropredy. They’re one of three boating families I have direct lineage from. Henry Drakeford who worked on the FMC steamers is one of them. Not the same person as referenced earlier.

 

JP

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Looking at the registration copy shows J Harrison and the boats Wear and Soar

Later the WEAR was registered in Birmingham 1482 with Joseph Roberts as master. 

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2 hours ago, Heartland said:

Looking at the registration copy shows J Harrison and the boats Wear and Soar

Later the WEAR was registered in Birmingham 1482 with Joseph Roberts as master. 

Birmingham 1482 was previously health registered as Brentford 439 on 11 January 1907 as WEAR for Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. with Jesse Harrison listed as Master. WEAR was built by W.E. Costin, Berkhampstead as a tanked horse boat with a fore-cabin. When health registered as Birmingham 1482 on 22 January 1926 WEAR had lost its fore-cabin - possibly the reason for its new registration.

 

SOAR was built by Rudkins, Leicester for Thomas Clayton, Oldbury - health registered as Leicester 104 on 24 January 1899. This registration was transferred to Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. on 14 June 1904 - but I do not have the Master for either date. The name SOAR was used again by Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. in 1937 on their newly acquired motor from Fellows Morton and Clayton Ltd. (exLINDOLA) :captain:

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Good Captain Pegg, take a look at the name Ware, and Naro:

 

86915828_104_4848.JPG.e7cf0a7cae7ade635e690e36c2645492cropped.jpg.c45fdc715980f11ee77b0663cd1f8ada.jpg

 

The 'a' and the 'r' are the same, in the same style. But the 'W' in Ware, and the 'N' in 'Naro' are different - as is the 'N' of Northampton.

I suggest what is written as a boat name in inverted commas, is actually a written down as spoken by another describing the boat: "Canal boat, narrow."

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23 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Good Captain Pegg, take a look at the name Ware, and Naro:

 

86915828_104_4848.JPG.e7cf0a7cae7ade635e690e36c2645492cropped.jpg.c45fdc715980f11ee77b0663cd1f8ada.jpg

 

The 'a' and the 'r' are the same, in the same style. But the 'W' in Ware, and the 'N' in 'Naro' are different - as is the 'N' of Northampton.

I suggest what is written as a boat name in inverted commas, is actually a written down as spoken by another describing the boat: "Canal boat, narrow."

So it’s not entirely conclusive, as we have inconsistency with the ‘W’ is it’s Ware and the ‘N’ if it’s Naro.

 

So is it not plausible that it’s ‘Ware’? Especially, as we we know that’s what the author believed the boat in question to be called. ‘Naro’ makes no sense written with that spelling by an educated person.

 

We had a thread a while back that demonstrated the use of the term ‘narrow boat’ has pretty much no provenance in records relating to Midlands canals and canal people. It seemed only to be used in local areas where the normal canal or river craft were wide.

 

JP

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My G Grandad name was James but I know for sure he was known to many  others as Jess.

My Grandad was Allen but was known as Jake I have been told 2 reasons for this one being these names where v common in the family so often had other known   names .

The other reason was if a boatman was reported or did something wrong he would get a strike against his name & often they would take the strike to cover the company for things like late delivery , repairs  or simply just not enough boat's to get the goods delivered on time .3 strikes & you where out the door no work & no boat was the rule .

They would be sacked one moment & re employed the next under  the other known name.

This is the sort of thing that all the books & records don't tell but trust me it is true part of the many untold tales of  the boating family's . 

Peter two other siblings have  on their birth cert with  occupation being Tar boatman = boat no 35 Claytons Wharf & boat no 25 Claytons wharf .

Picture is our George his mum was another of Grandads sisters 

 

.

George.jpg

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35 minutes ago, jeannette smith harrison said:

Peter two other siblings have  on their birth cert with  occupation being Tar boatman = boat no 35 Claytons Wharf & boat no 25 Claytons wharf .

What date :captain:

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Just to be correct the boat WEAR was registered at Berkhamsted 439 not Brentford 439 as previously stated. 

 
Also when Thomas Clayton's new wide boat CHESS was registered at Berkhamsted number 437 on 20th November 1906, Jesse Harrison was also recorded as its master.

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4 hours ago, pete harrison said:

Birmingham 1482 was previously health registered as Brentford 439 on 11 January 1907 as WEAR for Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. with Jesse Harrison listed as Master. WEAR was built by W.E. Costin, Berkhampstead as a tanked horse boat with a fore-cabin. When health registered as Birmingham 1482 on 22 January 1926 WEAR had lost its fore-cabin - possibly the reason for its new registration.

 

18 minutes ago, Chris M Jones said:

Just to be correct the boat WEAR was registered at Berkhamsted 439 not Brentford 439 as previously stated. 

You are of course correct Mr Jones, but the rest of my detail regarding this registration still stands - my excuse being tired eyes as I have been up since 04:30 and done a 12 hour shift at work :captain:

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