Engine bilge water level

[Benboat]

Hi,

 

Purchasing this boat and just wanted a second opinion on water in the engine bilge.

 

I’ve attached some pictures and wondered if anyone had any advice comments as to the amount of water of the general condition of the area.

 

its a 30ft steel hull narrow boat 1995 with a beta marine engine.

 

The brokerage say it’s just rain water and I tend to accept then but still as a first time buyer it’s slightly concerning.

 

cheers! 

[Pie Eater]

My bilge pump has a dual switch that works manually which more or less drain most of the water in the bilge and also has an automatic function which only clicks in when there is a few inches of water present.

 

Check if this boat has a similar switch.

[Bee]

Ideally it should be dry. if it is a 'cruiser stern' then it is unlikely to ever be dry. You really ought to get that lot out of the boat , it just makes the whole area into a mess and you will not want to go near it for oil checks/changes and everything else. You might even find a water pipe has come adrift or the stern gear is leaking.

[Benboat]

It is a cruiser stern, it has been sat for about 6 months so could just be rain water. 

 

I’m reluctant to take it before it has been sorted. But the survey would through up issues such as water pipes leaking or leaking stern gears...right? 

 

[dor]

Never mind the water, you need to do something about those isolator switches!

 

Cruiser stern bilges are notorious for keeping dry, but the whole lot needs cleaning up.  It's not just that it looks pretty, but a clean bilge makes it much easier to spot any leaks or bits that have dropped off.  An automatic bilge pump will help, but will usually leave about an inch of water in the bottom, so mop it out regularly. 

[Arthur Marshall]

I have a crujser stern and there is always, apart from when its hot and dry in summer, at least an inch of water in the bilge. Thats as much as the bilge pump can get out manually, as said above, the auto function kicks in a lot higher. 

I did have a self draining deck fitted at Kerridge dry dock on the Macc, one side of which they managed to fit so it drained back into the bilge instead of out the back. When I pointed out one drain hole was three inches higher  than the other, they just shrugged. Typical of boatyards. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Arthur Marshall

[Benboat]

2 minutes ago, dor said:

Never mind the water, you need to do something about those isolator switches!

 

Cruiser stern bilges are notorious for keeping dry, but the whole lot needs cleaning up.  It's not just that it looks pretty, but a clean bilge makes it much easier to spot any leaks or bits that have dropped off.  An automatic bilge pump will help, but will usually leave about an inch of water in the bottom, so mop it out regularly. 

Could you expand on the switches issue? Haha as you can tell I’m new to this and would appreciate the info. 

 

Im assuming it’s the issue of having the electric so open to the water issue?

[dor]

13 minutes ago, Benboat said:

Could you expand on the switches issue? Haha as you can tell I’m new to this and would appreciate the info. 

 

Im assuming it’s the issue of having the electric so open to the water issue?

The terminals are exposed, and like the battery terminals, should be covered over so that they can't inadvertently  short out to the hull, e.g. by a spanner or something being dropped on them.

 

They appear to be isolated from the hull by a bit of cardboard - looking newly replaced.   If say accidentally trodden on, they could move enough or break off and  short to the hull.  Don't underestimate the bang that occurs when a direct connection to the battery makes contact with the hull!

 

Water is a secondary consideration, but it is best to try and keep water and electrics well apart.

 

Many people make a box out of plywood to keep the batteries in, with a strap to hold down a lid.  The isolator switches can be mounted through the front of the box, with something to prevent the batteries moving and making contact.  The switches are designed to fit behind a panel with just the round central part poking through.

 

ETA:  just copied and rotated your picture.  It looks as though there may have been a panel fixed with holes for the isolator barrels to poke through, which might also keep stuff off the batteries.

Edited October 25, 2019 by dor

[Benboat]

5 minutes ago, dor said:

The terminals are exposed, and like the battery terminals, should be covered over so that they can't inadvertently  short out to the hull, e.g. by a spanner or something being dropped on them.

 

They appear to be isolated from the hull by a bit of cardboard - looking newly replaced.   If say accidentally trodden on, they could move enough or break off and  short to the hull.  Don't underestimate the bang that occurs when a direct connection to the battery makes contact with the hull!

 

Water is a secondary consideration, but it is best to try and keep water and electrics well apart.

 

Many people make a box out of plywood to keep the batteries in, with a strap to hold down a lid.  The isolator switches can be mounted through the front of the box, with something to prevent the batteries moving and making contact.  The switches are designed to fit behind a panel with just the round central part poking through.

So when the brokerage has told me he’s serviced the engine and such like. It would appear he’s trying to pull a fast one. Looks like he saw me coming 

[robtheplod]

I'd get all the water out and take it for a spin.... check for leaks/drips etc....  is the gutter clear above the engine? - ours was full of dead leaves etc so the rain had nowhere to drain to....

[Alan de Enfield]

Looking at the 'water-line' on the 1st picture it is almost as if the boat has been sunken - recovered after some time in the water,

 

There is some pretty serious looking corrosion (layers of flaking) on that left hand side swim.

Fairly heavy corrosion around the underneath of the calorifier and the exhaust (3rd Picture)

Even the calorifier piping looks dirty, greasy, oily.

It really does look a hotch-potch of rust and splintered, rotted plywood, calorifier held down with a ratchet-strap etc and looks like it will be a fair sized project to get it to any reasonable standard.

 

Unless you are looking for a project either :

 

1) Spend the money (up to  ~ £1000) on a FULL survey and ask the surveyor to have a detailed look at the possibility of being submerged and investigate the corrosion levels.

2) Keep looking.

 

 

It would have to be a very cheap boat to be worth buying.

[Slim]

Not pretty but. To me it looks like the boat was built with a separate bilge for the stern gland. This doesn't seem to be full. If I'm correct you can rule out a leaking stuffing box. For a cruiser stern left for 6 months the water level doesn't seem too bad to me, especially if the drain channels have dead leaves / debris in them. To me it's significant that all the bilges have water in them. Also there's a lot of rust higher up. As a semi trad owner it all points to water getting in from above.

If you do buy it you've got a fair amount cleaning up and making good ahead of you.

Good luck

[Slim]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Looking at the 'water-line' on the 1st picture it is almost as if the boat has been sunken - recovered after some time in the water,

 

There is some pretty serious looking corrosion (layers of flaking) on that left hand side swim.

Fairly heavy corrosion around the underneath of the calorifier and the exhaust (3rd Picture)

Even the calorifier piping looks dirty, greasy, oily.

It really does look a hotch-potch of rust and splintered, rotted plywood, calorifier held down with a ratchet-strap etc and looks like it will be a fair sized project to get it to any reasonable standard.

 

Unless you are looking for a project either :

 

1) Spend the money (up to  ~ £1000) on a FULL survey and ask the surveyor to have a detailed look at the possibility of being submerged and investigate the corrosion levels.

2) Keep looking.

 

 

It would have to be a very cheap boat to be worth buying.

Alan, where do you see a water line In the 1st photo?  

[pete.i]

Our boat, also a 30 foot cruiser stern, had much more water than that in the engine compartment. I replaced a couple of leaky pipes and sealed off the triangular bit of the bilge, where the stern gland drips, from the rest of the engine compartment. I also replaced the engine cover boards, which appeared to have been made from old barn door tongue and groove planks and which leaked like a sieve, with a single sheet of buffalo board. Make sure the drainage channels and drain holes are clear and it all should be good. Mine is as dry as a bone now apart from the plastic container where my automatic bilge pump sits. The only concern I would have is how much rust is down there. it is an unpleasant enough job doing any maintenance work on an engine as it is. A soaking wet engine compartment makes that job ten times worse.

 

Oh and don't muck about with baby nappies or towels etc. Get yourself a half decent wet vac and vac it out. Then dry it with old towels. Baby nappies especially are the devils tools. They break and spew snot all over the place especially the cheap ones.

Edited October 25, 2019 by pete.i

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Slim said:

Alan, where do you see a water line In the 1st photo?  

1st photo - Part way up that 'reddish' coloured board around the calorifier.

 

2nd photo - over the 'swim; and into (what was) the battery box. Guessing battery box rotten away and new master switches bolted thru the piece of red angle-iron.

[robtheplod]

1 hour ago, Benboat said:

So when the brokerage has told me he’s serviced the engine and such like. It would appear he’s trying to pull a fast one. Looks like he saw me coming 

if you pull out the dipstick, is the oil clear?

[Benboat]

That’s a lot of info and with the prospect of it being submerged I’ll probably keep looking. Seems like a chancer.

 

I’m not able to check the oil away from the area.

 

? so much to consider

[LadyG]

omg

[robtheplod]

11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

omg

indeed....

 

not sure if this is of any help but when we looked about our main thing we looked at was the engine bay as we thought if this is half decent then the rest of the boat probably has been looked after....

 

We saw lots of 'lovely' boats, but were a different story under the stern deck!   many were rooms never visited and it showed!

 

As an aside, with this boat having a red Beta, is this a sea going one, or does it not really work like that!

Edited October 25, 2019 by robtheplod

[Boater Sam]

Its an old Beta engine, check it out carefully.

[bizzard]

Also pic 1, sterngear. The shaft coupling looks too close to the gland pusher to withdraw it enough to repack the gland. At least the white plastic coupler would have to be removed to do the job, and thats if the propellor allows the shaft to be pulled up a bit.

Edited October 25, 2019 by bizzard

[Bee]

Have to agree with Alan re. corrosion, top of the swim / skin tank (?) looks like the sort of thing that gives me the willies.

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, Benboat said:

Could you expand on the switches issue? Haha as you can tell I’m new to this and would appreciate the info. 

 

Im assuming it’s the issue of having the electric so open to the water issue?

Where to start? Those isolator switches are crap, bin em and buy some better ones apart from the wiring.

[Alan de Enfield]

35 minutes ago, Bee said:

Have to agree with Alan re. corrosion, top of the swim / skin tank (?) looks like the sort of thing that gives me the willies.

 

Looking at it more closely -that corrosion on the top of the swim (picture 1) looks very like the 'remains' of steel that you find in the ashes of the Bonfire after 5th November.

Flakey - almost 'de-laminating'.

 

I do thionk it is one to either ask a LOT more questions of, or, walk away.

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, dor said:

The terminals are exposed, and like the battery terminals, should be covered over so that they can't inadvertently  short out to the hull, e.g. by a spanner or something being dropped on them.

 

They appear to be isolated from the hull by a bit of cardboard - looking newly replaced.   If say accidentally trodden on, they could move enough or break off and  short to the hull.  Don't underestimate the bang that occurs when a direct connection to the battery makes contact with the hull!

 

 

It would be interesting to get a spanner on the back of that isolator without the cardboard there......?