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peterboat

39 dead in a container

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Is our country that good that they risk death like this? I feel heartily sorry for these people and hope all involved are caught and suffocated in the same container extreme I know but I was sick when I heard this story on the news

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Yes, but Peter has posted in The Virtual Pub, which exists to host topics on a variety of subjects which do not need to be waterways-related.

 

I have not come across this - ostensibly appalling - story. Is it recent?

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32 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes, but Peter has posted in The Virtual Pub, which exists to host topics on a variety of subjects which do not need to be waterways-related.

 

I have not come across this - ostensibly appalling - story. Is it recent?

It happened last night, Athy.

 

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

Yes, but Peter has posted in The Virtual Pub, which exists to host topics on a variety of subjects which do not need to be waterways-related.

 

I have not come across this - ostensibly appalling - story. Is it recent?

Plus the container was on a boat earlier to this appalling disaster

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I've seen a figure (can't remember where) that suggested that an average person needs 10 cu ft of air (MSL) per day.  That doesn't mean 10 cu ft of space if there is an exchange of air possible with the actual space, but gets closer to the space needed as the degree of air-tightness increases.  That would mean that 39 people is just not going to work.  I think the number of people that can survive in a standard container for one day should be widely published so that nobody is tempted to try more.

If anybody knows better than 10cu ft I would like to hear it.

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3 minutes ago, jenevers said:

Why have Sky News named and issued a photograph of the driver?
 

He's imvolved

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21 minutes ago, jenevers said:

Why have Sky News named and issued a photograph of the driver?
 

Apparently looking to be charged with People-Smuggling & Murder

 

The law came in a few years ago that the Driver is always responsible for contents of his trailer.

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16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

He's imvolved

 

16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

He's imvolved

So....plaster his ID All over for everyone to see. Marked for life even if proved completely innocent.

  • Greenie 1

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2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I've seen a figure (can't remember where) that suggested that an average person needs 10 cu ft of air (MSL) per day.  That doesn't mean 10 cu ft of space if there is an exchange of air possible with the actual space, but gets closer to the space needed as the degree of air-tightness increases.  That would mean that 39 people is just not going to work.  I think the number of people that can survive in a standard container for one day should be widely published so that nobody is tempted to try more.

If anybody knows better than 10cu ft I would like to hear it.

When I was a firefighter wearing breathing apparatus I consumed 9 litres of air per minute when relaxed and resting which was lower than most of us (I'm a lazy git!)  that relates to 500 cu ft or more per 24hrs. 

 

ETA: More like 460 cu ft. Stress increases consumption, average person working hard uses 40 lts per minute. 

Edited by nb Innisfree

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3 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I've seen a figure (can't remember where) that suggested that an average person needs 10 cu ft of air (MSL) per day.  That doesn't mean 10 cu ft of space if there is an exchange of air possible with the actual space, but gets closer to the space needed as the degree of air-tightness increases.  That would mean that 39 people is just not going to work.  I think the number of people that can survive in a standard container for one day should be widely published so that nobody is tempted to try more.

If anybody knows better than 10cu ft I would like to hear it.

So that’s 39 people in side a steel container with about the same volume as a 70ft narrowboat.  Think of the amount of ventilation that BSS insists we have for a vessel that should only have eight people aboard...

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47 minutes ago, jenevers said:

So....plaster his ID All over for everyone to see. Marked for life even if proved completely innocent.

If charged, the persons name will, in most circumstances, enter the public domain, like it or not, that is the law.  However this driver has not yet been charged, and the police are being careful in only stating his nationality and age, yet the news outlets are all quoting “local sources”, which I agree does seem prejudicial. Interestingly Channel 4 news is naming him, but are at pains to remind us that he must be considered innocent...

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These unfortunate people will have been sold a dream of peace and prosperity in Western Europe by unscrupulous people smugglers.They probably come from corrupt poverty stricken and or war torn countries,and may well be susceptible to the spin and lies of people smugglers.

If someone is trying to sell you something,they will tell you anything.

Cynical I know,but I have been around a long time.

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Ok, try again.  I have found a figure of 19 cu ft of pure oxygen per average person per day.  Since the O2 only makes up 20% of air, that is 100 cu ft of air per person per day.  A typical large artic would be 45L x 8W x8H (approx) = 2900 cu ft.  It therefore could accomodate 29 people for one day, assuming they took up zero volume themselves, there was no other cargo, it was possible to extract the O2 at low densities, and it was possible to cope with the increased CO2, which it is not, if there was no ventilation.  Do those figures seem about right?

Is this why you see so many lorries in laybys with a back door open, are they ventilating their cargo? 

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35 minutes ago, The Dreamer said:

If charged, the persons name will, in most circumstances, enter the public domain, like it or not, that is the law.  However this driver has not yet been charged, and the police are being careful in only stating his nationality and age, yet the news outlets are all quoting “local sources”, which I agree does seem prejudicial. Interestingly Channel 4 news is naming him, but are at pains to remind us that he must be considered innocent...

I must be imagining it then, when the 6 o'clock BBC news named him and screened a photo of him. 

 

'The driver, named locally as Mo Robinson, 25, from Portadown, County Armagh, Northern Ireland, has been arrested on suspicion of murder.'

26 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I think I have confused 10 cu ft with 10ft cubed.

a bit like '6mm squared' wire then.  

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7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

The driver, named locally as Mo Robinson, 25, from Portadown, County Armagh, Northern Ireland, has been arrested on suspicion of murder.'

Yep that’s what I said, “local sources”!

Edited by The Dreamer

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29 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Ok, try again.  I have found a figure of 19 cu ft of pure oxygen per average person per day.  Since the O2 only makes up 20% of air, that is 100 cu ft of air per person per day.  A typical large artic would be 45L x 8W x8H (approx) = 2900 cu ft.  It therefore could accomodate 29 people for one day, assuming they took up zero volume themselves, there was no other cargo, it was possible to extract the O2 at low densities, and it was possible to cope with the increased CO2, which it is not, if there was no ventilation.  Do those figures seem about right?

Is this why you see so many lorries in laybys with a back door open, are they ventilating their cargo? 

Open doors are a sign of no cargo, so not worth nicking, at least i think so, most import cargo is sealed with a tag that identifies the cargo/point of origin and shouldn't be opened until its arrival at final destination 

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Every sympathy for the misguided who risked, and lost, their life with the people-traffickers. 

 

Criticism of Tilbury docks for not inspecting the container ?

 

The container came from Belgium - we have 'no borders' between the EU and the UK why would a sealed container be inspected ?

 

Yes - I know that some major Ports have Co2 sensors, heartbeat counters etc but at the end of the day there should be no inspections between EU countries. The responsibility should be with the 'illegal immigrants' first point of entry. Presumably the immigrants have successfully crossed several borders before they got to the UK, so, why has the container not be Co2 / heartbeat tested elsewhere on its journey ?

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Every sympathy for the misguided who risked, and lost, their life with the people-traffickers. 

 

Criticism of Tilbury docks for not inspecting the container ?

 

The container came from Belgium - we have 'no borders' between the EU and the UK why would a sealed container be inspected ?

 

Yes - I know that some major Ports have Co2 sensors, heartbeat counters etc but at the end of the day there should be no inspections between EU countries. The responsibility should be with the 'illegal immigrants' first point of entry. Presumably the immigrants have successfully crossed several borders before they got to the UK, so, why has the container not be Co2 / heartbeat tested elsewhere on its journey ?

What has Tilbury got to do with it? It is known to have entered the UK via Holyhead.

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Just now, Graham Davis said:

What has Tilbury got to do with it? It is known to have entered the UK via Holyhead.

And southern Ireland before that I believe 

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1 minute ago, Graham Davis said:

What has Tilbury got to do with it? It is known to have entered the UK via Holyhead.

Purfleet actually!

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10 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

What has Tilbury got to do with it? It is known to have entered the UK via Holyhead.

No they didn't.

 

The Tractor unit came from Ireland to Tilbury  Purfleet (via Holyhead), it picked up the trailer at Tilbury at about 1:00am after it was unloaded off the ferry from Belgium at around midnight

 

Edit - yes it was Purfleet. I was confused as the BBC 6:00 news spent ages talking about Tilbury.

 

From the BBC news website.

 

What about the lorry?

Essex police believe the trailer arrived in Purfleet on the River Thames from Zeebrugge, Belgium, at about 00:30 local time on Wednesday (11:30 GMT Tuesday).

The tractor unit (the front part of the lorry) is thought to have come from Northern Ireland and picked up the trailer from Purfleet, Essex, shortly after 01:05 (00:05 GMT).

Belgian prosecutors have launched an investigation to establish whether the trailer travelled through Belgium.

Essex police corrected their earlier statement that said the lorry had entered the UK at Holyhead, a major Irish Sea port in Wales, on 19 October.

However, Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said investigations would be undertaken to establish if the lorry had passed through Ireland.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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