prm150 d3 oil leak

[pluto83]

Hi recent issue, I believe the output shaft seal has gone on me. I was playing with the morse controller without the engine running and when I fired it up this began to leak. 

its behind the control plate, how can I take this apart and replace the seal, I really need to do it myself as I am out of money. But worried I may lose something.

any help will be great.

 

Okay so  I should scrap the above, how to keep the ball bearing and spring in place, when I undo the nut where the control lever lives ?

Edited October 22, 2019 by pluto83
clearer question

[pluto83]

I feel rather confident that a magnet will find the detent ball, or spring should I lose it.

kind of a wasted post.

seems like its gonna be an easy fix

[blackrose]

32 minutes ago, pluto83 said:

 

seems like its gonna be an easy fix

 

I hope so. It sounds like someone's firing a machine gun in your engine room!

[pluto83]

does it? I know nothing when it comes to engine's. People who seen it, say it sounds alright. It may be the iphone mic. But I agree it does sound a bit loud.

 

[Tony Brooks]

Unless the gearbox oil foamed as it escaped it looks to me as if it has been contaminated with water - what state is the oil cooler in?

[Bod]

Along with Tony, how much oil is showing on the gearbox dip stick and what colour is the oil?

 

Bod

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Bod said:

Along with Tony, how much oil is showing on the gearbox dip stick and what colour is the oil?

 

Bod

Water in the oil won't have caused the leak unless it has been there long term and corroded the shaft but that is very unlikely. If it is creamy coloured oil in the box then you need to sort out the O ring and the drain, refill, run alternately in ahead and aster for a short while, drain and refill twice to get rid of the contaminated oil. However unless the boat has been flooded to above gearbox level. you need to find out how water got into the box.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[Boater Sam]

The seal is a square section O ring, available as a spare, not an ordinary O ring.

Grease will keep the spring and ball located whilst you refit the plate.

Water in the oil will destroy the gearbox soon, its either flooded in through the breather or your oil cooler is shot. Has the engine needed topping up often and is the gearbox too full?

[pluto83]

38 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

The seal is a square section O ring, available as a spare, not an ordinary O ring.

Grease will keep the spring and ball located whilst you refit the plate.

Water in the oil will destroy the gearbox soon, its either flooded in through the breather or your oil cooler is shot. Has the engine needed topping up often and is the gearbox too full?

It did have water in it, was coming out the oil fill bolt. filled with oil and it stopped happening, Yeah the engine was flooded before. Some of the white stuff is kitchen de-greaser foaming.

I don't know the state of the oil cooler, worth investigating further.

Thanks for the tip and use with grease  

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Water in the oil won't have caused the leak unless it has been there long term and corroded the shaft but that is very unlikely. If it is creamy coloured oil in the box then you need to sort out the O ring and the drain, refill, run alternately in ahead and aster for a short while, drain and refill twice to get rid of the contaminated oil. However unless the boat has been flooded to above gearbox level. you need to find out how water got into the box.

I think it did go above the gearbox, the water in the engine room. The boat was full of rain water as it was taken out the water and left for some time.

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, pluto83 said:

It did have water in it, was coming out the oil fill bolt. filled with oil and it stopped happening, Yeah the engine was flooded before. Some of the white stuff is kitchen de-greaser foaming.

I don't know the state of the oil cooler, worth investigating further.

Thanks for the tip and use with grease  

I think it did go above the gearbox, the water in the engine room. The boat was full of rain water as it was taken out the water and left for some time.

 

The flooding is reason enough for water in the oil. Once the O ring is sorted flush as I described above (now edited to add something I missed out) and try. If the oil stays the normal amber colour then job sorted, if it goes creamy then look at the oil cooler.

[Slim]

Not wishing to hijack the thread but does anyone know the pressur the oil goes through the cooler at? Have asked PRM but they couldn't tell me .

Thanks and apologies to OP

 

 

Frank

[pluto83]

14 minutes ago, Slim said:

Not wishing to hijack the thread but does anyone know the pressur the oil goes through the cooler at? Have asked PRM but they couldn't tell me .

Thanks and apologies to OP

 

 

Frank

no hasn't come to mind, how do you know if its not enough or too much pressure?

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The flooding is reason enough for water in the oil. Once the O ring is sorted flush as I described above (now edited to add something I missed out) and try. If the oil stays the normal amber colour then job sorted, if it goes creamy then look at the oil cooler.

When I replace the o ring, is the gasket near it?

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by pluto83

[pluto83]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

The seal is a square section O ring, available as a spare, not an ordinary O ring.

Grease will keep the spring and ball located whilst you refit the plate.

Water in the oil will destroy the gearbox soon, its either flooded in through the breather or your oil cooler is shot. Has the engine needed topping up often and is the gearbox too full?

is it not this o ring https://www.asap-supplies.com/brands/prm/prm-04301526-o-ring

[pluto83]

part list,

 

[bizzard]

There are also little copper washers under the heads of the six bolts that hold the oil pump on which tend to leak oil. Best to renew them.

[Boater Sam]

1 hour ago, pluto83 said:

no hasn't come to mind, how do you know if its not enough or too much pressure?

When I replace the o ring, is the gasket near it?

 

I think it is on the low pressure dump side of the release valve so not very high.

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I think it is on the low pressure dump side of the release valve so not very high.

I agree except I think it is on the dump side of the spool (ahead/astern) valve so the majority of the oil passes through it all the time the engine is running rather than only the output of the PRV that will not operate in neutral. Its no great difference though.

[Boater Sam]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I agree except I think it is on the dump side of the spool (ahead/astern) valve so the majority of the oil passes through it all the time the engine is running rather than only the output of the PRV that will not operate in neutral. Its no great difference though.

My failing memory, you are correct Tony. The older Newage box with a filter is the same, so that all the oil gets filtered.

It is possible that the pressure in the cooling water system at 5 to 10 psi is not high enough to force water into the oil via a leaky heat exchanger.

[pluto83]

That's all way to complicated for the level I am at. Where good for these parts?

[Captain Fizz]

39 minutes ago, pluto83 said:

That's all way to complicated for the level I am at. Where good for these parts?

ASAP

[Sea Dog]

On 23/10/2019 at 00:15, pluto83 said:

does it? I know nothing when it comes to engine's. People who seen it, say it sounds alright. It may be the iphone mic. But I agree it does sound a bit loud.

Did they also say it looks like it's been either flooded or awfully neglected?  It strikes me that, with the engine space looking like that, you're likely to be stumbling from one issue to another.  Simply keeping the thing reasonably clean and relatively dry means you're for more likely to spot developing issues before they bite you.  It's easier to work on then too... and any potential helper is less likely to be last seen running away! 

 

[Psychalist]

Once you've got a replacement O ring, which as it comes from ASAP is round section (having recently replaced one myself), your challenge, in replacing it, is getting the old one out. The manual has a more complicated procedure than the one described on these forums, which is to turn the engine over on the starter without starting it (a second pair of hands holding the stop solenoid or cable) - the high pressure oil behind the existing gasket forces it forward along the shaft and enables you to hook it out. Poking down the shaft won't work and could damage the mating surfaces for the new seal. You have to be careful to catch any oil so cover the shaft with a rag and have a container underneath. It takes some effort so a number of attempts may be needed. I suspect this might not work too well if the oil is emulsified or foaming so you might need to clean the box out first.

 

/G

[Boater Sam]

1 hour ago, Psychalist said:

Once you've got a replacement O ring, which as it comes from ASAP is round section (having recently replaced one myself), your challenge, in replacing it, is getting the old one out. The manual has a more complicated procedure than the one described on these forums, which is to turn the engine over on the starter without starting it (a second pair of hands holding the stop solenoid or cable) - the high pressure oil behind the existing gasket forces it forward along the shaft and enables you to hook it out. Poking down the shaft won't work and could damage the mating surfaces for the new seal. You have to be careful to catch any oil so cover the shaft with a rag and have a container underneath. It takes some effort so a number of attempts may be needed. I suspect this might not work too well if the oil is emulsified or foaming so you might need to clean the box out first.

 

/G

Using a wet/dry vac will remove the old ring.

I'm very surprised that you had a round section ring, I am convinced that the genuine part is square section. Indeed I have seen several PRM boxes that have been "repaired" with a round section ring and they all continued to leak.

[Psychalist]

I took the round section replacement to be the official part, certainly from ASAP I would expect so - all pictures I'd seen appeared round section (including the one linked in post 13, which is what I bought). The one I took out was a bit square, but I assumed that was because it had been compressed in a square hole for 20 years. It was certainly different material to black plumbing o rings, slightly brown and harder material to withstand the heat and pressure. Anything not of that material and dimensions, wouldn't work. As to the détente ball, I don't think the OP need worry given the state of his box, it won't be round and will be rusty.

 

/G

[Iain_S]

6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Using a wet/dry vac will remove the old ring.

I'm very surprised that you had a round section ring, I am convinced that the genuine part is square section. Indeed I have seen several PRM boxes that have been "repaired" with a round section ring and they all continued to leak.

 

We had that problem once (quite a few years ago now!) Offending new ring, which had come from a box of assorted "O" rings, was replaced by one with a slightly section : problem solved

 

Would be interesting to see if a ring from PRM was round or square section!