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Battery State on MPPT changed from Bulk to Off?


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I can't see the mppt operating correctly with that set up and no negative to PV input , maybe it will still get a charge with all negatives after mppt but mppt won't be working as it should.

It would have been as easy if not easier to just wire as mppt manual states.

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2 hours ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

We had the work initially done by a local boat electrician

 

2 hours ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

I didn't realise that the electrician had grounded the negative to the boat rather than using a connector

As others have pointed out, those two statements contradict each other, sorry. 

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24 minutes ago, notts_alan said:

I can't see the mppt operating correctly with that set up and no negative to PV input...

I can, if the controller has a common negative.
 

The PV -ve path would be through the aluminium frame to the hull, to the hull bonding point, to the battery -ve, up to the controller. 

 

Totally incorrect and I can’t for the life of me think why anyone would want to wire it like that. 

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25 minutes ago, WotEver said:

 

As others have pointed out, those two statements contradict each other, sorry. 

Well one can state they are an electrician with tens of years experience on boats while ultimately lying, yes?

 

I've attached a few screenshots if they help.. regardless, I guess have some work to do!

 

I'll just accept no solar for the next day or two, keep my energy consumption low and look to fix it all up properly if I can't get a recommendation from shire cruisers. 

 

First thing will likely involve ordering a bunch of connectors with their respective cabling as im thinking it's better to start fresh rather than splice the already cut cable. Means a fresh start in my head at least. 

 

I'm assuming rules disallow me mentioning names, as it'll no doubt be seen as witch hunting, but I've no problems sharing the business name in question via PM

 

 

 

Edited by Unicorn Stampede
Removed screenshots as named included. My bad
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1 minute ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

Well one can state they are an electrician with tens of years experience on boats while ultimately lying, yes?

Of course. Or indeed one could be a practising boat electrician demonstrating poor practice on every job. 

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My mppt controller actually regulates the negative connection and the positive is just linked through.  If this controller is the same,  the panels are actually just connected straight to the batteries!

 

Richard 

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Well, if you are a bit practical, do it yourself. Get some appropriate cable, some MC4 connectors,maybe some bootlace ferrules, decide if you want serial or parallel connected panels.Make sure there is a fuse in the positive to the battery, of the appropriate size. You will then know exactly how it is setup, and better equipped in the future should anything go wrong.You could even put a solar isolator switch in if you wanted, though not essential.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You appear to have named them anyway.

 

Was it Charlotte or Emily who came out to you ?

My bad on that one. Wasn't intentional.

 

They offer services other than day boat hire, which are advertised in person and on the site. I'm assuming that's where you're going with the names?

 

Removed the screen shots anyway.

 

Edit: now I think about it, are those the names of the sisters? Wasn't my strongest subject...

Edited by Unicorn Stampede
Brontë sisters?
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1 minute ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

My bad on that one. Wasn't intentional.

 

They offer services other than day boat hire, which are advertised in person and on the site. I'm assuming that's where you're going with the names?

 

Removed the screen shots anyway.

If you look at their website it would be easy to be convinced that they know what they are doing - but - if your analysis of their wiring techniques are correct, then they are (to say the least') "using incorrect methods"

 

From the Boat Safety Guidelines :

 

3.7 Two‐wire systems
3.7.1
Is the electrical system insulated from the hull? 


Check any wiring that can be seen to a suitable device
such as a horn, headlamp, or navigation light for the
presence of a two‐wire insulated cable.
Electrical systems using the hull as a conductor
will not pass this check.


NOTE – an electrical fitment attached to a metal hull or superstructure and having only a single wire
connected indicates the use of the hull as a conductor.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you look at their website it would be easy to be convinced that they know what they are doing - but - if your analysis of their wiring techniques are correct, then they are (to say the least') "using incorrect methods"

 

From the Boat Safety Guidelines :

 

3.7 Two‐wire systems
3.7.1
Is the electrical system insulated from the hull? 


Check any wiring that can be seen to a suitable device
such as a horn, headlamp, or navigation light for the
presence of a two‐wire insulated cable.
Electrical systems using the hull as a conductor
will not pass this check.


NOTE – an electrical fitment attached to a metal hull or superstructure and having only a single wire
connected indicates the use of the hull as a conductor.

We had one very kind gentleman yesterday take a look and specifically confirm we had the neg connected to the hull. We ended up buying a book off him about electrics and I've spent some time last night reading it haha!

 

Based on his own electrical set up and what he was saying mirroring others in more detail than the vague comments we received earlier this week from others that it didn't look right, then clearly we've got a dud job.

 

I'll be busy tomorrow!!

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2 hours ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

I assume it's going to be harder because the electrician has cut the end off the port which fits into the mc4 connector so he can ground it to the boat?

No - looking at your photo showing the negative connected to the bracket bolt there's enough length there to fit an mc4.  This is really not a difficult thing to sort out - and with any electrician worth his salt doing it, it won't look like the dog's breakfast it currently does! 

 

Rather than getting into a conflict with the original guy who, it strikes me, doesn't think he's done anything wrong and probably isn't the right person to put it right, I think I'd be looking to getting the job done correctly elsewhere. This will allow you to get everything working as it should and get back to enjoying your boating as quickly as possible. 

 

That done, you might later choose to seek a refund from the original bloke. Take photos (as you have), and perhaps get a written report of the work done to correct the errors, to support your claim.

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13 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

No - looking at your photo showing the negative connected to the bracket bolt there's enough length there to fit an mc4.  This is really not a difficult thing to sort out - and with any electrician worth his salt doing it, it won't look like the dog's breakfast it currently does! 

 

Rather than getting into a conflict with the original guy who, it strikes me, doesn't think he's done anything wrong and probably isn't the right person to put it right, I think I'd be looking to getting the job done correctly elsewhere. This will allow you to get everything working as it should and get back to enjoying your boating as quickly as possible. 

 

That done, you might later choose to seek a refund from the original bloke. Take photos (as you have), and perhaps get a written report of the work done to correct the errors, to support your claim.

There's also the question of whether the mppt controller has been damaged by being connected this way. The OP started the thread because the system was not working as it had, rather than to query the quality of the workmanship. 

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4 hours ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

My volt meter ain't up to scratch. Need a real one, not one I've hacked together. Regardless we were planning on adjusting the panels because of another issue discovered yesterday.

 

I didn't realise that the electrician had grounded the negative to the boat rather than using a connector (jack plug?).

 

This in turn meant no negative was plugged into the MPPT, which the manual says won't give accurate readings.. so was gonna need to buy a bunch of plugs, splice the cabling onto the plug and then connect it 'properly' (and feed the negative into the MPPT).

You obviously didn't employ a propr marine electrician or even one who had any marine knowledge 

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19 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You obviously didn't employ a propr marine electrician or even one who had any marine knowledge 

 

I think we all know that - but if you look at the 'electricians' website anyone would be fooled

 

Overplating

New engines fitted

Solar fitted

Boat hire

All electrical installations etc etc etc

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1 hour ago, stegra said:

There's also the question of whether the mppt controller has been damaged by being connected this way. The OP started the thread because the system was not working as it had, rather than to query the quality of the workmanship. 

Yes indeed, well pointed out. Let's hope that his controller has survived, as it's not a bad unit. Overkill for 2 x 115w panels, but room for growth.

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19 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Yes indeed, well pointed out. Let's hope that his controller has survived, as it's not a bad unit. Overkill for 2 x 115w panels, but room for growth.

Hopefully it'll be fine! We were going to install a third panel of 115w. I went a bit over kill on a few things because I wanted to make sure we were covered in the future (e.g. had a 1600w inverter installed)

 

Is there anyway to check the controller is fine? Or will an electrician know?

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4 hours ago, Unicorn Stampede said:

Correct. The positive feeds into the shore line plug socket and then into the MPPT. The negative is grounded to the hull. 

 

I'll ask shire cruisers tomorrow and see if they can help / direct us. I've not been able to find someone mobile because of our location unfortunately.

 

Quite annoying having spent all that cash on the assumption they wouldn't get something I can now see as the 'basics' right, because they have a whole business around narrowboat electrics, engineering, welding etc.

That is incredibly bad practice, bordering on the criminal.

 

No, it is criminal! What happens when someone mistakenly plugs in a mains voltage shore lead to your solar panel system!
 

And as for those self adhesive cable ties, I’m surprised they haven’t come off already. But don’t worry, they soon will.

 

This is such appalling work that I think you have a duty of care to other unsuspecting boaters, to name and shame. After all, the pictures say it all, it won’t be a matter of your opinion.

 

Edit: oh perhaps I got the  wrong end of the stick and the body of the shore connector is merely used as a means of entry for the solar cable, as opposed to being plugged into the solar system?

Edited by nicknorman
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5 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Then I can't understand how it could work.

It will work because the panel ground connection on the MPPT controller will be internal,y connected to the battery -ve connector. With the battery -ve connector being connected to hull. And the panel -ve being connected to hull, you have a circuit. Albeit an incredibly bad way to do it and non-compliant with BSS.

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