Jump to content

I never did like Steve Haywood


Featured Posts

6 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

The cruiser was alongside, with crew on the bank, while the narrowboat was still astern of the boat moored upstream of the cruiser......

The cruiser is still moving just before the impact but its hard to tell if its still moving forward or if its just the back coming in to the bank.

 

I assume this is just below Marsh Lock and so the narrowboat is heading downstream????

 

...................Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, dmr said:

The cruiser is still moving just before the impact but its hard to tell if its still moving forward or if its just the back coming in to the bank.

 

I assume this is just below Marsh Lock and so the narrowboat is heading downstream????

 

...................Dave

Why have you italicised “downstream”?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, BruceinSanity said:

Is that right? I thought that on a river, the vessel going downstream is normally the stand on vessel as it has less scope for manoeuvring. 

No that's only when approaching a narrow bridge or other obstacle that prevents both boats passing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Stilllearning said:

Why have you italicised “downstream”?

 

Because its much harder to stop when heading downstream, and you do sort of have right of way? However I suspect the flow on the Thames in July was probably almost insignificant.

 

With the angle of Steves boat, and with any significant flow, a hard reverse would have been risky.

He should have dropped the revs and turned away sooner, but we all make mistakes, and there is a big difference between an error of judgement and a deliberate ramming.

 

..............Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, dmr said:

This forum can be very judgemental, I have spent a bit of time chatting to Steve and he appeared to be a decent and tolerant bloke.

 

My take on this:

He was obviously heading for the mooring space but the plastic boat ignored this and went in and "stole the spot".

Its hard to judge distances from the camera, in fact its pretty hard in real life, but Steve believed there was space for two boats. The plastic boat crept forward a bit more than he expected reducing the space but he still thought he would fit, this is why he steers more tightly in as its now a tighter gap, its only at the last minute that he realises he will not fit, either due to an easy error of judgement or because the plastic boat was still drifting forward, this is why he suddenly steers away (maybe he should have done hard reverse but its a trad engine with a big flywheel? so maybe he was right).

We had a very similar situation in the spring when we were heading downstream into a spot and a hire boat suddenly went for the same gap, it can be tricky.

 

edit to say....watch that video again with a more open mind

 

..............Dave

wot a load of nonsense.

I've watched it with open eyes, never mind an open mind, and have absolutely no doubt that Haywood knew the hire boat would occupy the space long before he would be in a position to moor.  Furthermore the hire boat was clearly moving so as to moor up there, while Haywood was several boat lengths away, and his own course was not necessarily related to mooring at that location, if anywhere.

If he really believed there was space for 2 boats then his reaction was quite out of place.  such a 'decent bloke' would have drawn alongside the hire boat and politely suggested he move up a bit.  He clearly drove directly at the hire boat without any intention of trying to get into a non-existent space, it was pure aggression and revenge.

how you can compare the video with "a hire boat suddenly went for the same gapbeats me.    There was nothing sudden about the hire boat's movements. .......  and why do you refer to a 'hire boat' as if they are a different, ignorant, subordinate breed?  


 

  • Greenie 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

wot a load of nonsense.

I've watched it with open eyes, never mind an open mind, and have absolutely no doubt that Haywood knew the hire boat would occupy the space long before he would be in a position to moor.  Furthermore the hire boat was clearly moving so as to moor up there, while Haywood was several boat lengths away, and his own course was not necessarily related to mooring at that location, if anywhere.

If he really believed there was space for 2 boats then his reaction was quite out of place.  such a 'decent bloke' would have drawn alongside the hire boat and politely suggested he move up a bit.  He clearly drove directly at the hire boat without any intention of trying to get into a non-existent space, it was pure aggression and revenge.

how you can compare the video with "a hire boat suddenly went for the same gapbeats me.    There was nothing sudden about the hire boat's movements. .......  and why do you refer to a 'hire boat' as if they are a different, ignorant, subordinate breed?  


 

That is how I read the film’s events. Additionally, as the narrowboat was going downstream, and therefore had less control, what he did was even more culpable, especially as he is supposed to be an experienced boater.

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, dmr said:

This forum can be very judgemental, I have spent a bit of time chatting to Steve and he appeared to be a decent and tolerant bloke.

 

My take on this:

He was obviously heading for the mooring space but the plastic boat ignored this and went in and "stole the spot".

Its hard to judge distances from the camera, in fact its pretty hard in real life, but Steve believed there was space for two boats. The plastic boat crept forward a bit more than he expected reducing the space but he still thought he would fit, this is why he steers more tightly in as its now a tighter gap, its only at the last minute that he realises he will not fit, either due to an easy error of judgement or because the plastic boat was still drifting forward, this is why he suddenly steers away (maybe he should have done hard reverse but its a trad engine with a big flywheel? so maybe he was right).

We had a very similar situation in the spring when we were heading downstream into a spot and a hire boat suddenly went for the same gap, it can be tricky.

 

edit to say....watch that video again with a more open mind

 

..............Dave

Sorry Dave, I agree with you on most things but here you're talking absolute bollox.

  • Greenie 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watched it again. From the early shots I don't think that the space would be big enough to accommodate a cruiser and Steve's boat. So when the cruiser got there first, and Justice was still some distance away, it should have been apparent to Steve that he had (probably) lost the space, and he had enough time to stay in foward gear and steer away.  All his arguments about stopping a 20 ton boat are irrelevant in the circumstances.

The guy on the cruiser has done nothing wrong (other than the mild bit of bad language), whereas Steve Haywood has behaved as a complete *****.

  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

wot a load of nonsense.

I've watched it with open eyes, never mind an open mind, and have absolutely no doubt that Haywood knew the hire boat would occupy the space long before he would be in a position to moor.  Furthermore the hire boat was clearly moving so as to moor up there, while Haywood was several boat lengths away, and his own course was not necessarily related to mooring at that location, if anywhere.

If he really believed there was space for 2 boats then his reaction was quite out of place.  such a 'decent bloke' would have drawn alongside the hire boat and politely suggested he move up a bit.  He clearly drove directly at the hire boat without any intention of trying to get into a non-existent space, it was pure aggression and revenge.

how you can compare the video with "a hire boat suddenly went for the same gapbeats me.    There was nothing sudden about the hire boat's movements. .......  and why do you refer to a 'hire boat' as if they are a different, ignorant, subordinate breed?  


 

We had a similar issue when we had begun the turn into a gap, whilst heading downstream, and a hire boat coming upstream did a sudden change of course to go for the same gap. We went and had a chat afterwards to explain why we had not given way, even though it might have appeared rude, and they explained that they did not even know that the water was flowing or that it was difficult to stop when heading downstream.

 

.....................Dave

 

kt

Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't look to me that Mr Heywood's boat would have taken very long to have been fully stopped, had he ever had any intention of doing so.

They only stop when you put them in reverse and wind on the power, and he did that so late that coupled with the fact he actually steered towards the cruiser he was always going to hit it quite hard.

I can't believe this was an error of judgement - I doubt he could have been that daft.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave, what about the fact that Haywood cut across the bows of a boat in his haste to get to the mooring right at the beginning of the video? That contravened the coltegs and you seem to be ignoring that. I can't help thinking that you're defending the indefensible simply because you know the guy. 

Edited by blackrose
  • Greenie 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about mooring manoeuvres near plastic boats is that one has to be very careful, and Mr Haywood was being anything but that.

We all make cockups but that looks a lot like complete incompetence allied to a bad temper, compounded by knowing he had just made a complete ass of himself.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its a good job he hasn't got an ex working boat

Would it sink quicker than an ex hire boat?

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Dave, what about the fact that Haywood cut across the bows of a boat in his haste to get to the mooring right at the beginning of the video? That contravened the coltegs and you seem to be ignoring that. I can't help thinking that you're defending the indefensible simply because you know the guy. 

I mentioned that upthread, just look back through 300 posts, you may find it. 

Edited by rusty69
Link to post
Share on other sites

The boaters on the cruiser blatantly pinched the space. A voice saying “quick, before that narrowboat” can be heard. They knew they were being sneaks. 

 

The shouty bloke on the  narrowboat would have seen he’d lost out and should have avoided the collision by reacting sooner and steering away from the sneaky boaters.

 

I can only conclude the shouty bloke was drunk. 

 

 

 

Edited by Goliath
  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Goliath said:

The boaters on the cruiser blatantly pinched the space. A voice saying “quick, before that narrowboat” can be heard. They knew they were being sneaks. 

But was that by the helmsman? And before or after they slowed down. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Just watched the video, that's quite a reckless act... new as I am I'd always keep miles away from a GRP boat as I'm always aware who'd come off worse in any incident!

That is perhaps the nub of the argument. Mr Haywood knows better, but decided to be an ass.

  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Dave, what about the fact that Haywood cut across the bows of a boat in his haste to get to the mooring right at the beginning of the video? That contravened the coltegs and you seem to be ignoring that. I can't help thinking that you're defending the indefensible simply because you know the guy. 

 

Trying to remember exactly what its like there, but I do remember its a bit unusual approaching and leaving that lock. I think I also would turn to the left on leaving the lock (cutting across the bows is a bit judgemental) to give the boat heading towards the lock an easier approach, but a lot depends upon how close the other boat was. I think when we approached this lock (earlier this year) that the boats leaving it all chose to "cut across our bows".

 

It was bad boating and a significant error of judgement, possibly compounded by a bit of anger over the hire boat obviously "stealing" the spot, but I would be surprised if any experienced boater would deliberately ram a plastic boat.

 

...............Dave

  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Trying to remember exactly what its like there, but I do remember its a bit unusual approaching and leaving that lock. I think I also would turn to the left on leaving the lock (cutting across the bows is a bit judgemental) to give the boat heading towards the lock an easier approach, but a lot depends upon how close the other boat was. I think when we approached this lock (earlier this year) that the boats leaving it all chose to "cut across our bows".

 

It was bad boating and a significant error of judgement, possibly compounded by a bit of anger over the hire boat obviously "stealing" the spot, but I would be surprised if any experienced boater would deliberately ram a plastic boat.

 

...............Dave

The hire boat didn’t obviously steal the spot, you think it did, but many others don’t.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.