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The Tragic Loss Of Entering A Flooding Vessel.


rusty69

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Apologies if this has already been discussed, there is no date on the report.Oh, and for the quality.I couldn't figure out how to upload a PDF.

 

Case from the latest MAIB digest (dated October 2019).

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Edited by rusty69
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4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That looks inline with what was reported at the time

I thought it had probably already been mentioned. When did it happen?

 

Still the "Lessons" are worth repeating, as is the importance of suitably sized fenders.

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24 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Apologies if this has already been discussed, there is no date on the report.Oh, and for the quality.I couldn't figure out how to upload a PDF.

 

Case from the latest MAIB digest.

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We had very similar a year or three ago on the T&M.

 

We had gone up the lock and were waiting for the 'other boat' to come up before we set off.

 

We waited at the top lock gate as the lock filled and all of a sudden loads of screaming & shouting as the back end of the boat stopped rising with the water.

 

Long story short - rescued the situation and found that a short mooring line had fallen off the back of the counter and was trailing behind the boat (the other end was still attached),, as the bottom gates closed the trailing rope was trapped between the gates, as the water level rose, the boat drifted (was pulled) backwards until the line was tight and holding the back end down.

Another minute and the boat would have been flooded.

 

We 'escaped' and lived to tell the tale.

 

Later that same day, in the same lock there was a 'cilling' and the lock closed for a couple of days whilst the boat was recovered.

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24 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I thought it had probably already been mentioned. When did it happen?

 

Still the "Lessons" are worth repeating, as is the importance of suitably sized fenders.

When it first happened, only difference I can remember is that it was said he went for the money he had to get another boat. But that is just how I remember it.

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2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

OK, on further investigation,it looks like this event happened back in 2016, so many apologies please ignore.

 

 

Might be old but still serves as a warning to us all. So no need to apologise.

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I'm probably being simplistic here but I usually now work to the plan of always keeping the stern away from the lock gates. When going down it prevents you getting cilled and when going up it prevents getting trapped like the OP. What I now do is always push the bow hard up to lock gates or cill in the direction in which I'm travelling, the worst I tend to get is water onto the foredeck from leaking gates but the cratch cover stops it going inside. The only 'fail' I've had on this method was when the bow button caught under a metal cross member on the staircase at Chester, but since I've cut halfway through one of the links on the securing chain the only thing that happened was the chain broke (as intended).

 

My own experience of being too close to the lock gates was on, I think, the Calder and Hebble where our 60 footer was a bit tight in the locks and I had to be tight up to the gates. When the top paddles were opened I immediately saw that that the stern wasn't rising with the water but couldn't see why.  I shouted for the paddles to be dropped whilst I tried to work out what was happening. What it eventually turned out to be was the overlap on the weld on the baseplate had caught on a protruding nut on the lock gate. Since both of these were  underwater at the time it wasn't immediately obvious.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

What I now do is always push the bow hard up to lock gates or cill in the direction in which I'm travelling, the worst I tend to get is water onto the foredeck from leaking gates but the cratch cover stops it going inside.

Exactly what we use to do in our 69ft boat. I am now reluctant to do so since the last survey had us weld up the deck drains.

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17 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I'm probably being simplistic here but I usually now work to the plan of always keeping the stern away from the lock gates. When going down it prevents you getting cilled and when going up it prevents getting trapped like the OP. What I now do is always push the bow hard up to lock gates or cill in the direction in which I'm travelling, the worst I tend to get is water onto the foredeck from leaking gates but the cratch cover stops it going inside. The only 'fail' I've had on this method was when the bow button caught under a metal cross member on the staircase at Chester, but since I've cut halfway through one of the links on the securing chain the only thing that happened was the chain broke (as intended).

 

 

 

You can come unstuck with that as well as lots dont have weak link on fenders, I dont use chains just cord  https://www.facebook.com/groups/NarrowboatOwnersGroup/permalink/2457893817822225/

3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Why?:huh:

Yes why

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6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You can come unstuck with that as well as lots dont have weak link on fenders, I dont use chains just cord  https://www.facebook.com/groups/NarrowboatOwnersGroup/permalink/2457893817822225/

Yes why

In fairness it only takes a minute with a junior hacksaw to create a weakened link (which is all I did after I fixed the broken chain at Chester).

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

They were apparently too close to the water line for insurance purposes.

I would have thought that so long as it is above the water line it would have been OK (as it must have been for the years before the survey), unless of course you do a lot of open sea passages:unsure:

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Trust me, lessons have not been learned.

 

This is the staircase on the Droitwich canals.  We went through about two months ago, “helped” by volunteer lock keepers.  Below is the text from my complaint email to CRT.

 

I am writing to make you aware of an incident, that my wife an I were involved in on the Droitwich Junction Canal today. Whilst navigating down the staircase lock at 4 & 5 we made an error and left one of the paddles open on the lower gates, thus when we opened the middle gate there was in sufficient draft to allow us to move forward. We take full responsibility for this part of the incident, and were, we believe, safely able to rectify the situation. Our plan was to shut the middle gates, gently refil the upper lock, and in effect start the whole process again (of course ensuring that the lower paddles were closed). However as we started to close the middle gates two volunteer lock keepers arrived, and instructed us to open them again, as they considered that to solve the problem they would use both chambers as one lock. One of the keepers then fully opened the upper gate paddles, without warning. This caused the boat to move forward rapidly and out of control. It then hit the middle cill with enough force to move our washing machine forward by nearly two feet. It also caused crockery and glass to shift and break. The situation then became even more concerning, as when the boat was finally, and safely moved into the lower chamber it became again stuck on the cill. Before I could raise the alarm, one of the keepers had already started opening the lower paddles. Thankfull we were able to stop him before too much water was released. Given that these locks were the subject of a fatality a few years ago, and I understand that the accident was caused because the boater was attempting to use the locks as a single chamber, we believe that the actions of the keepers warrants investigation by yourselves. This incident has caused my wife and I stress, particularly as she was watching the boat serge forward towards a drop, and was unable to do anything to assist me. It has also caused damage to items in the boat, however I am unable to assess damage to the boat its self as this would most likely be below the water line. Please can you insure that the above is looked into, and that that the keepers in question are enable to use this for reflective learning so as to ensure that a similar situation does not arise again. 

Edited by The Dreamer
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5 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 

I would have thought that so long as it is above the water line it would have been OK (as it must have been for the years before the survey), unless of course you do a lot of open sea passages:unsure:

Well, yes, me too, but not being a qualified marine surveyor whose report was required to secure the insurance,I went along with it. In hindsight, it may have been better to have the door sill raised, or opted for 3rd party only insurance.The boat is not many years of 40,and it hasn't yet sunk in my ownership (or undertaken any sea passages).

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6 minutes ago, The Dreamer said:

Trust me, lessons have not been learned.

 

Thisi is the staircase on the Droitwich canals.  We went through about two months ago, “helped” by volunteer lock keepers.  Below is the text from my complaint email to CRT.

 

I am writing to make you aware of an incident, that my wife an I were involved in on the Droitwich Junction Canal today. Whilst navigating down the staircase lock at 4 & 5 we made an error and left one of the paddles open on the lower gates, thus when we opened the middle gate there was in sufficient draft to allow us to move forward. We take full responsibility for this part of the incident, and were, we believe, safely able to rectify the situation. Our plan was to shut the middle gates, gently refil the upper lock, and in effect start the whole process again (of course ensuring that the lower paddles were closed). However as we started to close the middle gates two volunteer lock keepers arrived, and instructed us to open them again, as they considered that to solve the problem they would use both chambers as one lock. One of the keepers then fully opened the upper gate paddles, without warning. This caused the boat to move forward rapidly and out of control. It then hit the middle cill with enough force to move our washing machine forward by nearly two feet. It also caused crockery and glass to shift and break. The situation then became even more concerning, as when the boat was finally, and safely moved into the lower chamber it became again stuck on the cill. Before I could raise the alarm, one of the keepers had already started opening the lower paddles. Thankfull we were able to stop him before too much water was released. Given that these locks were the subject of a fatality a few years ago, and I understand that the accident was caused because the boater was attempting to use the locks as a single chamber, we believe that the actions of the keepers warrants investigation by yourselves. This incident has caused my wife and I stress, particularly as she was watching the boat serge forward towards a drop, and was unable to do anything to assist me. It has also caused damage to items in the boat, however I am unable to assess damage to the boat its self as this would most likely be below the water line. Please can you insure that the above is looked into, and that that the keepers in question are enable to use this for reflective learning so as to ensure that a similar situation does not arise again. 

I'm sorry to hear the above. Did you get any response from CRT?

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7 minutes ago, The Dreamer said:

Trust me, lessons have not been learned.

 

This is the staircase on the Droitwich canals.  We went through about two months ago, “helped” by volunteer lock keepers.  Below is the text from my complaint email to CRT.

 

I am writing to make you aware of an incident, that my wife an I were involved in on the Droitwich Junction Canal today. Whilst navigating down the staircase lock at 4 & 5 we made an error and left one of the paddles open on the lower gates, thus when we opened the middle gate there was in sufficient draft to allow us to move forward. We take full responsibility for this part of the incident, and were, we believe, safely able to rectify the situation. Our plan was to shut the middle gates, gently refil the upper lock, and in effect start the whole process again (of course ensuring that the lower paddles were closed). However as we started to close the middle gates two volunteer lock keepers arrived, and instructed us to open them again, as they considered that to solve the problem they would use both chambers as one lock. One of the keepers then fully opened the upper gate paddles, without warning. This caused the boat to move forward rapidly and out of control. It then hit the middle cill with enough force to move our washing machine forward by nearly two feet. It also caused crockery and glass to shift and break. The situation then became even more concerning, as when the boat was finally, and safely moved into the lower chamber it became again stuck on the cill. Before I could raise the alarm, one of the keepers had already started opening the lower paddles. Thankfull we were able to stop him before too much water was released. Given that these locks were the subject of a fatality a few years ago, and I understand that the accident was caused because the boater was attempting to use the locks as a single chamber, we believe that the actions of the keepers warrants investigation by yourselves. This incident has caused my wife and I stress, particularly as she was watching the boat serge forward towards a drop, and was unable to do anything to assist me. It has also caused damage to items in the boat, however I am unable to assess damage to the boat its self as this would most likely be below the water line. Please can you insure that the above is looked into, and that that the keepers in question are enable to use this for reflective learning so as to ensure that a similar situation does not arise again. 

Why on earth would someone try to use a staircase as 'one lock'. If the design enabled them to be used as one lock.....they'd be one lock wouldn't they?

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2 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I'm sorry to hear the above. Did you get any response from CRT?

Came back and said they were arranging to retrain the volunteers.

2 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Why on earth would someone try to use a staircase as 'one lock'. If the design enabled them to be used as one lock.....they'd be one lock wouldn't they?

With hindsight, the question I should have asked at the time!  Am far more cautious about accepting help from anyone now, bystander, or volunteer...

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9 minutes ago, The Dreamer said:

Trust me, lessons have not been learned.

 

This is the staircase on the Droitwich canals.  We went through about two months ago, “helped” by volunteer lock keepers.  Below is the text from my complaint email to CRT.

 

I am writing to make you aware of an incident, that my wife an I were involved in on the Droitwich Junction Canal today. Whilst navigating down the staircase lock at 4 & 5 we made an error and left one of the paddles open on the lower gates, thus when we opened the middle gate there was in sufficient draft to allow us to move forward. We take full responsibility for this part of the incident, and were, we believe, safely able to rectify the situation. Our plan was to shut the middle gates, gently refil the upper lock, and in effect start the whole process again (of course ensuring that the lower paddles were closed). However as we started to close the middle gates two volunteer lock keepers arrived, and instructed us to open them again, as they considered that to solve the problem they would use both chambers as one lock. One of the keepers then fully opened the upper gate paddles, without warning. This caused the boat to move forward rapidly and out of control. It then hit the middle cill with enough force to move our washing machine forward by nearly two feet. It also caused crockery and glass to shift and break. The situation then became even more concerning, as when the boat was finally, and safely moved into the lower chamber it became again stuck on the cill. Before I could raise the alarm, one of the keepers had already started opening the lower paddles. Thankfull we were able to stop him before too much water was released. Given that these locks were the subject of a fatality a few years ago, and I understand that the accident was caused because the boater was attempting to use the locks as a single chamber, we believe that the actions of the keepers warrants investigation by yourselves. This incident has caused my wife and I stress, particularly as she was watching the boat serge forward towards a drop, and was unable to do anything to assist me. It has also caused damage to items in the boat, however I am unable to assess damage to the boat its self as this would most likely be below the water line. Please can you insure that the above is looked into, and that that the keepers in question are enable to use this for reflective learning so as to ensure that a similar situation does not arise again. 

That is a worrying incident but I don’t think it’s a comparable incident with the accident in 2016. I have seen nor heard any suggestion that the accident in 2016 had anything to do with attempting the use the staircase as a single chamber.

 

JP

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4 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I don’t think it’s a comparable incident

Accepted.

5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I have seen nor heard any suggestion that the accident in 2016

Again true, but at the time, a local suggested to me that it did.  Interestingly the CRT never challenged this!

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56 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Exactly what we use to do in our 69ft boat. I am now reluctant to do so since the last survey had us weld up the deck drains.

I'm not sure I follow this -

 

Do the insurers follow the surveyors guidance allowing any survey to invent his own requirements ? or

Does the surveyor follow the insurers guidance - do the insurance 'office bods' have any idea what is a 'safe' height ?

 

Some years ago (long before the smoking ban) my technical Director was negotiating for renewal of the company insurance policy - he stupidly suggested that if we banned smoking in the warehouse (lots of cardboard storage) we should see a reduction in premium.
 

The answer from the insurers was " no it will not reduce the premium, but, we will not increase it by as much as we were going to".

Yer, Yer, Yer ……………………….

 

When the policy was issued there was a new clause banning smoking anywhere on site.

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm not sure I follow this -

 

Do the insurers follow the surveyors guidance allowing any survey to invent his own requirements ? or

Does the surveyor follow the insurers guidance - do the insurance 'office bods' have any idea what is a 'safe' height ?

As I understood it at the time,the second one. Probably based on nothing more than the previous years claims. Claims go up, hull outlets follow suit.

 

I reckon another 10 years all hull outlets will be 2 foot above the roof.Bridge insurance premiums will be going up.

Edited by rusty69
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