Warwickshire hunt on towpath at Willoughby

[Iain_S]

10 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Foxes in many places are a pest and a nuisance. Hunting at sometime in the distance past was a necessity to control. At this time this was carried out in best practice, on the quiet and no ceremony. Today's pompous so and so's on their 'hunters' literally looking down on us commoners do not do the cause any good. I have been discussing with a semi supporter of the hunt and he says the death is instant and the fox actually enjoys the chase. That's when the fight started.

 

No idea what the alternative is, but I'm sure there's a humane way to cull these lovely looking creatures. I have a friend, yes! I really do, who feeds a family of Foxes at the bottom of his garden in a built up area. If he's late they are waiting for him. (Perhaps one way to instantly disperse them). 

 

The above is my take in it all and a little tongue in cheek so dont crucify me.

A lamp and a rifle are a far more effective means of controlling fox numbers. Not sure about control of urban foxes, though!

[Nightwatch]

2 hours ago, Iain_S said:

A lamp and a rifle are a far more effective means of controlling fox numbers. Not sure about control of urban foxes, though!

A rifle in a good handlers hand.

[frangar]

10 hours ago, Iain_S said:

A lamp and a rifle are a far more effective means of controlling fox numbers. Not sure about control of urban foxes, though!

Or alternatively leave Mother Nature to control numbers naturally....why do we think we have a right to control the levels of a species? Or decide that it’s a pest? Personally I’d rather the redcoats on horseback are culled but for some reason that’s objected to....

[BWM]

11 hours ago, Iain_S said:

A lamp and a rifle are a far more effective means of controlling fox numbers. Not sure about control of urban foxes, though!

I spoke to a couple of people carrying out pest control in Heathrow airport and they said that they use ammunition with a reduced charge. 

[Midnight]

I have a lot of difficulty with fox hunting. As a teenager I was 110% anti then I moved to the country. I live almost between two estates. One owned by a large corporate. The gamekeepers there gas the fox coverts, there's no hunting but there again there are very few if any foxes. On the other estate owned by a lord there are foxes and there is a hunt but made up of local farmers and villagers, many are neighbors.  I now keep my own council and wrestle with the conundrum. Do I want foxes which means the hunt - who despite the law probably do chase live foxes. Or do I want no hunt which probably means no foxes. To complicate matters I once had a fox break into a coup and kill 21 of my bantams in one night. I would cheerfully have ripped the little bugger apart if I'd caught it.

[BWM]

13 hours ago, Midnight said:

I have a lot of difficulty with fox hunting. As a teenager I was 110% anti then I moved to the country. I live almost between two estates. One owned by a large corporate. The gamekeepers there gas the fox coverts, there's no hunting but there again there are very few if any foxes. On the other estate owned by a lord there are foxes and there is a hunt but made up of local farmers and villagers, many are neighbors.  I now keep my own council and wrestle with the conundrum. Do I want foxes which means the hunt - who despite the law probably do chase live foxes. Or do I want no hunt which probably means no foxes. To complicate matters I once had a fox break into a coup and kill 21 of my bantams in one night. I would cheerfully have ripped the little bugger apart if I'd caught it.

I have to wonder why the corporate lot feel the need to eradicate foxes but as unpleasant as their method of control is, it still allows the fox population to regroup outside of their boundaries, unlike the red coated inbreds chasing them over property they don't own or have permission to be on, not to forget the many pets and other unfortunate animals the pack encounter. Animal cruelty is animal cruelty, even if carried out on horseback with cartloads of entitlement. 

  Most chicken coup attacks are down to poor security, or forgetfulness - why blame the fox? 

[David Schweizer]

3 hours ago, BWM said:

I have to wonder why the corporate lot feel the need to eradicate foxes but as unpleasant as their method of control is, it still allows the fox population to regroup outside of their boundaries, unlike the red coated inbreds chasing them over property they don't own or have permission to be on, not to forget the many pets and other unfortunate animals the pack encounter. Animal cruelty is animal cruelty, even if carried out on horseback with cartloads of entitlement. 

  Most chicken coup attacks are down to poor security, or forgetfulness - why blame the fox? 

 Many foxes will attack during the daytime when the chickens are not locked up. Perhaps you could also suggest what "security" measures need to be taken by a sheep farmer to protect new born lambs from attack by foxes.

Edited October 7, 2019 by David Schweizer

[Sir Nibble]

Surely the issue is not whether or not foxes need to be controlled nor how, but that a hunt has invaded the towpath in violation of the law 

[BWM]

2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 Many foxes will attack during the daytime when the chickens are not locked up. Perhaps you could also suggest what "security" measures need to be taken by a sheep farmer to protect new born lambs from attack by foxes.

 Most large free range operations have a competent electric barrier along with sensible control measures, and it's not beyond most keeping smaller numbers to erect a secure run.

 As far as lambs go, we're talking foxes here not wolves! As someone mentioned earlier it is more common for dogs to attack than foxes. 

 

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 Many foxes will attack during the daytime when the chickens are not locked up. Perhaps you could also suggest what "security" measures need to be taken by a sheep farmer to protect new born lambs from attack by foxes.

Local farmers here say that crows, ravens and dogs are a bigger problem than foxes with their lambs. Foxes may take a few injured lambs but they would probably die anyway.

[David Schweizer]

45 minutes ago, BWM said:

Most large free range operations have a competent electric barrier along with sensible control measures, and it's not beyond most keeping smaller numbers to erect a secure run.  

Erecting a run that is secure from foxes involves a great deal of earthworks, foxes can, and will, dig under fencing. The best fox deterrent for small numbers of free range hens is to have a trained dog loose in the yard.

 

 As far as lambs go, we're talking foxes here not wolves! As someone mentioned earlier it is more common for dogs to attack than foxes. -

That is a statement often repeated by anti hunt activists, without any real evidence.   Foxes will hunt at night if they can so are rarely seen, wheras most dog attacks take place during the daytime. As I mentioned earlier, my son looses quite a few healthy lambs to foxes every year, and has only had one incident of a dog worrying his sheep , but no lambs killed.

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by David Schweizer

[David Schweizer]

35 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Local farmers here say that crows, ravens and dogs are a bigger problem than foxes with their lambs. Foxes may take a few injured lambs but they would probably die anyway.

I would not argue with any farmer regarding his/her experience of stock safety. I can only reflect the experience of my son who breeds pedigree sheep in Northern Victoria, Australia, and looses quite a few healthy lambs each year to foxes. It has got to the stage where he has engaged the services of a game hunter who uses a shotgun to cull the local fox population. which is legal in Victoria.

Edited October 7, 2019 by David Schweizer

[doratheexplorer]

19 hours ago, Midnight said:

I have a lot of difficulty with fox hunting. As a teenager I was 110% anti then I moved to the country. I live almost between two estates. One owned by a large corporate. The gamekeepers there gas the fox coverts, there's no hunting but there again there are very few if any foxes. On the other estate owned by a lord there are foxes and there is a hunt but made up of local farmers and villagers, many are neighbors.  I now keep my own council and wrestle with the conundrum. Do I want foxes which means the hunt - who despite the law probably do chase live foxes. Or do I want no hunt which probably means no foxes. To complicate matters I once had a fox break into a coup and kill 21 of my bantams in one night. I would cheerfully have ripped the little bugger apart if I'd caught it.

There's a third option which doesn't involve hunting foxes with dogs or gassing foxes.

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

I would not argue with any farmer regarding his/her experience of stock safety. I can only reflect the experience of my son who breeds pedigree sheep in Northern Victoria, Australia, and looses quite a few healthy lambs each year to foxes. It has got to the stage where he has engaged the services of a game hunter who uses a shotgun to cull the local fox population. which is legal in Victoria.

And therein lies the problem; you are comparing Australia to the uplands of Mid Wales. Sorry but there is no comparison.

[BWM]

2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

I would not argue with any farmer regarding his/her experience of stock safety. I can only reflect the experience of my son who breeds pedigree sheep in Northern Victoria, Australia, and looses quite a few healthy lambs each year to foxes. It has got to the stage where he has engaged the services of a game hunter who uses a shotgun to cull the local fox population. which is legal in Victoria.

I can only presume that the ordinary diet of a fox in Britain is different to that of those in Australia and as such it is not a useful comparison. A British fox would normally survive on small rodents, beetles, berries, etc. 

 I'm fairly certain that culling foxes with a firearm is entirely legal here also. 

[David Schweizer]

35 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

And therein lies the problem; you are comparing Australia to the uplands of Mid Wales. Sorry but there is no comparison.

Actually it is remarkably similar in many ways, but possibly more arid and less populated.

 

 

7 minutes ago, BWM said:

I can only presume that the ordinary diet of a fox in Britain is different to that of those in Australia and as such it is not a useful comparison. A British fox would normally survive on small rodents, beetles, berries, etc. 

 I'm fairly certain that culling foxes with a firearm is entirely legal here also. 

No differences, the foxes don't eat the lambs, they just kill them.

Culling in Victoria State is legal, (provided you have alicence for the gun) but you need a culling permit in some States.

Edited October 7, 2019 by David Schweizer

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, BWM said:

I can only presume that the ordinary diet of a fox in Britain is different to that of those in Australia and as such it is not a useful comparison. A British fox would normally survive on small rodents, beetles, berries, etc. 

 I'm fairly certain that culling foxes with a firearm is entirely legal here also. 

 

Where I used to live (London suburbs), the foxes normally survived on discarded McDonald's and KFC! ?

Edited October 7, 2019 by cuthound
To remove a letter masquerading as a space

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 Many foxes will attack during the daytime when the chickens are not locked up. Perhaps you could also suggest what "security" measures need to be taken by a sheep farmer to protect new born lambs from attack by foxes.

Generally fox will take vulnerable/weak lambs, a good farmer will keep his sheep safe, remove weak lambs.

PLEASE do not feed fox in urban environments, they habour disease and are vermin in towns. It is a big mistake to "domesticate" foxes or any other wild animals.

Edited October 7, 2019 by LadyG

[frangar]

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Generally fox will take vulnerable/weak lambs, a good farmer will keep his sheep safe, remove weak lambs.

PLEASE do not feed fox in urban environments, they habour disease and are vermin, in towns.

Foxes do not harbour disease that affects anything apart from them. And I for one do not consider them vermin....some people on the other hand are definitely vermin! 
 

Just to take this back on topic briefly  please do report any hunt activities you come across on the towpath. As others have said the consequences for anyone with pets or even children doesn’t bare thinking about not to mention the risk of disease from the hounds dog mess. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by frangar
Pressed send a bit early!

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

Actually it is remarkably similar in many ways, but possibly more arid and less populated.

 

 

No differences, the foxes don't eat the lambs, they just kill them.

Culling in Victoria State is legal, (provided you have alicence for the gun) but you need a culling permit in some States.

I've seen a vixen dragging a largs [ish] duck to feed her babies, I think she would take a lamb as well. I've little experience, in spite of twenty years farming, they are fairly easily  kept under control. 

[LadyG]

9 minutes ago, frangar said:

Foxes do not harbour disease that affects anything apart from them. And I for one do not consider them vermin....some people on the other hand are definitely vermin! 

Yes, they get mange, a painful disease, also transmittable to dogs.

They should be allowed to live in the country, but no way should people feed them in towns. In towns they are vermin, like "seagulls", in the country they are fairly easily culled/controlled. They won't be "eradicated", and I don't think they should be. They get a bad press, due to ignorance of "the balance of nature" as promulgated by left wing loonies who have a hatred of "pink coated" "unspeakables"

Edited October 7, 2019 by LadyG

[Machpoint005]

8 hours ago, BWM said:

Most chicken coup attacks are down to poor security, or forgetfulness - why blame the fox? 

 

We lost some chickens to foxes several years ago. We have lost none since - because of improved security.

 

Even back then, I didn't blame a suburban fox for behaving like ...  a fox.

[frangar]

Just now, LadyG said:

Yes, they get mange, a painful disease, also transmittable to dogs.

They should be allowed to live in the country, no way should people feed them in towns.

Mange is treatable in both foxes and dogs. I have no problem with them being fed in towns....they are however very adaptable and are quite capable of finding food in towns themselves! I’ve had close fox encounters with a pair in the underground car park at the excel conference centre in  londons dock lands and a Tesco car park in Basildon....plus they bask in my mother’s garden in urban Essex. Truly stunning to see. 

[Hudds Lad]

the problem for Estates who raise game birds is that foxes are spree killers, if they get in a game pen they'll keep killing until disturbed or bored.

[Jess--]

we used to keep chickens which were (very) free range, in that at dawn the door to their coop opened and they were free to roam until dusk when the door closed, no fencing on our property or anywhere around us (this gave them woodland and open farmland to wander in)

even though we know there are foxes in the woodland about 300 yards away we lost more chickens to tractors than foxes (the chickens were smart enough to wait until the tractor had passed before crossing the track... only to be flattened by the trailer)