Boats In London

[Alan de Enfield]

I don't recall seeing this press release previously - I cannot find it in any search.

 

July 2019

The number of boats on London’s canals has reached a new record high with figures showing an 84% increase in the last five years.

The figures, from the Canal & River Trust’s annual boat count, show the numbers of boats in London currently stand at 4,326 compared to 2,326 in 2012.

They also show that boats without a home mooring in the capital have risen by 246%, from 638 in 2012 to 2208 this year.

To cope with the demand, the Trust is to spend £67,000 carrying out a range of improvements including increasing the number of mooring spaces with almost half a kilometre of new mooring rings, water points and bin facilities.

“The canals in London are pretty amazing places,” said Ros Daniels, Trust regional director. “We used to say they were a hidden treasure in the capital, but now that’s less and less the case, with increasing numbers of people discovering them.

“More people and more boats does put increased pressure on existing facilities and space, so it’s important that we keep adapting to make sure that everyone can enjoy and benefit from the waterways.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

To cope with the demand, the Trust is to spend £67,000 carrying out a range of improvements including increasing the number of mooring spaces with almost half a kilometre of new mooring rings,

 

 

Well that makes space for about 25 of the additional 2,000 boats!

 

And the additional 2,000 boats are paying approx £2m in licence fees, so spending £67k on improving facilities for them seems parsimonious at best. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Well that makes space for about 25 of the additional 2,000 boats!

 

And the additional 2,000 boats are paying approx £2m in licence fees, so spending £67k on improving facilities for them seems parsimonious at best. 

 

 

It could be that they are spending the rest on 'enforcement'.

 

London continues to be the only area with licence evasion above 5%, although licence evasion increased across all of the country by 0.4% last year.

 

I guess next years announcement will be "for the 11th year licence compliance has remained above 94%

 

 

Licence compliance on the Canal & River Trust’s waterways remains high with 96.5% of boaters holding a valid licence, down slightly on 2018 (96.9%).

This is the tenth year that licence compliance has remained above 95% according to the Trust’s annual national boat count.

“Boat licences contribute around 10% of our total income so it’s important that everyone who keeps a boat on our waterways pays their fair share,” said on Horsfall, Trust head of customer service support. “On occasion we do have to take robust action to remove boats.

“In 2018/19 106 boats were removed from our canals and rivers as they were unlicensed or in breach of our terms and conditions.”

The count identified a 2.3% increase in boat numbers, with all regions except the North West seeing small increases in boat numbers. 

 

London and the South East was the only region where licence compliance was under 95% (94.1%).

Edited October 4, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike Tee]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It could be that they are spending the rest on 'enforcement'.

 

 

Why would they bother? Seems a bit like chasing off the goose that lays golden eggs - and all those boats in London seem to be coping without the facilities they need (even if it is difficult and unpleasant but C&RT don't care), so why spend on improving those?

Look at it another way, those 2,000 boats cover the cost of a serious breach.

[frangar]

Think how much more could be raised if they were charged for towpath moorings..........

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Well that makes space for about 25 of the additional 2,000 boats!

 

And the additional 2,000 boats are paying approx £2m in licence fees, so spending £67k on improving facilities for them seems parsimonious at best. 

 

 

 

Yes, I think there might be a zero missing.

[Detling]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

Think how much more could be raised if they were charged for towpath moorings..........

It has been mooted in popular central areas pre-book, services and £15 per night, still a bargain for central London parking.

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And the additional 2,000 boats are paying approx £2m in licence fees, so spending £67k on improving facilities for them seems parsimonious at best.

Pedant alert...

 

Only if they are all about 70 feet long.

 

Full length boats seem fairly rare in London, prbably due to difficulties in finding moorings. An awful lot are half that length, or less.

[roland elsdon]

Didnt they paylicences before heading to lunun then or are they all brand new boats?

[Arthur Marshall]

24 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Pedant alert...

 

Only if they are all about 70 feet long.

 

Full length boats seem fairly rare in London, prbably due to difficulties in finding moorings. An awful lot are half that length, or less.

And if they were all paying for licences... 

[alan_fincher]

20 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

And if they were all paying for licences... 

I'm actually prepared to accept that the vast majority are, although last time I studied stas, London evasion rates were claimed to be the highest.  6%, possibly, but I'd have to do some Googling to be sure.

 

What I haven't factored in is if some of the 2000 are wide-beams.  They are starting to be charged rather more than narrow boats, of course, which slews the income back a bit more towards Mike's numbers.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

I'm actually prepared to accept that the vast majority are, although last time I studied stas, London evasion rates were claimed to be the highest.  6%, possibly, but I'd have to do some Googling to be sure.

 

What I haven't factored in is if some of the 2000 are wide-beams.  They are starting to be charged rather more than narrow boats, of course, which slews the income back a bit more towards Mike's numbers.

6% is the current CART estimate for license evasion in London. Of course this doesn't include the people who don't have a home mooring and claim to CC but don't and who CART haven't caught, which I suspect is rather more...

[Drayke]

How do they know if a boat  licenced  or not if it does not display a Licence, Registration Number or a Name on the boat??? Wouldn’t mind betting that the numbers could be a lot higher.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, F DRAYKE said:

How do they know if a boat  licenced  or not if it does not display a Licence, Registration Number or a Name on the boat??? Wouldn’t mind betting that the numbers could be a lot higher.

 

This is a question CRT should be pressed to answer. 

 

As far as I can tell, they simply leave stealth boats alone and leave them to it. This is the reason for their proliferation, I suspect.

 

 

 

 

How to ask them in a meaningful way that would hold them to account though, I've no idea.

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is a question CRT should be pressed to answer. 

 

As far as I can tell, they simply leave stealth boats alone and leave them to it. This is the reason for their proliferation, I suspect.

 

 

 

 

How to ask them in a meaningful way that would hold them to account though, I've no idea.

 

 

 

And what they could do about it anyway, short of towing away any boat that didn't display a number? 

Me, I'd suggest the Banksy solution - graffiti the boat with a number, or, to make it permanent, chop it into the cabin side with an angle grinder! Wouldn't have to be pretty... 

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

And what they could do about it anyway, short of towing away any boat that didn't display a number? 

 

I think this is the root of the problem. To do anything about it is near impossible without staking out the boat with police or something, to catch the owner and serve <what?> on him or her. 

 

Because of this I think word is getting around that if you have the gall to keep your boat free of ID you CAN get away with no licence, BSS, insurance etc and live on the cut really cheaply. Paradoxically all you have to do is keep moving every few days so they never know where to find you. 

 

It is a steadily increasing problem for which CRT have no answer.

 

 

[Murflynn]

the police can tow away (actually lift with a special truck) cars that are illegally parked or not taxed.   why not do the same?  create a boat pound wherever there is a dead end branch or the like and shove them in like sardines.   when the owner wants to collect he can pay the cost of towing, storage and extraction.  no other enforcement or administration needed.  any boat that is anonymous with no licence visible qualifies for immediate removal.

[Drayke]

10 hours ago, Murflynn said:

the police can tow away (actually lift with a special truck) cars that are illegally parked or not taxed.   why not do the same?  create a boat pound wherever there is a dead end branch or the like and shove them in like sardines.   when the owner wants to collect he can pay the cost of towing, storage and extraction.  no other enforcement or administration needed.  any boat that is anonymous with no licence visible qualifies for immediate removal.

They would need quite a few of these deadend places judging by the numbers I have seen.

[The Dreamer]

On 04/10/2019 at 10:29, Mike the Boilerman said:

And the additional 2,000 boats are paying approx £2m in licence fees,

Just because there are more boats in London doesn’t mean there are more on the network, and so no more revenue for CRT.  Reality is most of them are wrecks moved from the Midlands.

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, The Dreamer said:

Just because there are more boats in London doesn’t mean there are more on the network, and so no more revenue for CRT.  Reality is most of them are wrecks moved from the Midlands.

Well lets look on the bright side. At least the wrecks are being moved to London where they belong 

[alan_fincher]

20 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

This is a question CRT should be pressed to answer. 

 

As far as I can tell, they simply leave stealth boats alone and leave them to it. This is the reason for their proliferation, I suspect.

 

11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I think this is the root of the problem. To do anything about it is near impossible without staking out the boat with police or something, to catch the owner and serve <what?> on him or her. 

 

Because of this I think word is getting around that if you have the gall to keep your boat free of ID you CAN get away with no licence, BSS, insurance etc and live on the cut really cheaply. Paradoxically all you have to do is keep moving every few days so they never know where to find you. 

 

It is a steadily increasing problem for which CRT have no answer.

You may believe this to be the situation, but I guess you are not in possession of any information that actually confirms it to be the case?

 

How do you know "it is a steadily increasing problem"?  Can you quote numbers of boats that are unmarked now, versus some date in the past?

 

I actually think many enforcement officers have a very much better idea exactly what boats are on their patch than you might think.

 

But like you, I suspect, I don't have many actual facts to back up what I believe to be the case.

[furnessvale]

50 minutes ago, F DRAYKE said:

They would need quite a few of these deadend places judging by the numbers I have seen.

They would also need a change in the law to make such action by CRT legal, something our law makers have been remarkably reluctant to do in the past.

[Chewbacka]

21 hours ago, Murflynn said:

the police can tow away (actually lift with a special truck) cars that are illegally parked or not taxed.   why not do the same?  create a boat pound wherever there is a dead end branch or the like and shove them in like sardines.   when the owner wants to collect he can pay the cost of towing, storage and extraction.  no other enforcement or administration needed.  any boat that is anonymous with no licence visible qualifies for immediate removal.

It can be reasonably assumed that no one lives in the car, so taking it to the pound is a proportionate response, but with boats it is often some ones home, and there are laws to prevent removal without going through a long process.  I can’t see many MPs voting to change those laws.

[jds_1981]

On 04/10/2019 at 10:29, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And the additional 2,000 boats are paying approx £2m in licence fees, so spending £67k on improving facilities for them seems parsimonious at best. 

 

 

Lots will be rivers only, so nearer to £300 -£400/boat. I also see the odd 'unpowered' boat which will be free.

Also as others have said, lots of problems with enforcement in London. Boats that don't move for over a year, etc.

[Quaffer]

In the London & Southeast CRT region I believe the License Support staff (formerly known as Enforcement) keep a photo database of boats not displaying any identification (index number,license,name) along with a quite detailed description of that boat .This database is used by the data collectors to correctly sight such craft  every 7 days.

 

Any boat that pitches up in the region (either by cruising from other parts of the network ,or by being craned in locally) without any identification will be  added to this database as soon as a photo can be obtained.

 

IMHO it is a dangerous assumption to make that a boat with no ID can evade CRT's notice in London for very long.

 

It may  be the case that a lot of unlicensed boats in London have infact been refused a license by CRT and are now in the enforcement process which may ultimately lead to their removal.