Jump to content

What tool to use?


frahkn

Featured Posts

Job                - Tighten the alternator belt on my Beta 43

 

Problem        - The nuts which need to be loosened are not the usual sort (with hex heads).

                          Instead they are some sort of Allen bolt, round externally with a hole for an 8mm allen key in the head.

                          My allen key won’t work because the nuts are very tight.

                         I have an impact torque wrench set which includes  an“allen” type drive 30mm by 8mm and which fit the bolts. There is no room to use the wrench but the

                         8mm drive fits well in my 8mm socket.

                         The issue is that my small sockets came with a .25 inch ratchet drive. This is only about 6 inches long and does not give me the leverage to shift the bolt.

                         I have a big torque wrench at home or I could buy another (or some type of leverage bar) but my wrench has a .5 inch drive so would not fit the 8mm socket.

 

Question       - What is the cheapest way of solving this problem?

 

All advice gratefully accepted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may not have fully grasped the situation (no surprise there I hear you cry). Could you not just slip a suitable bar over the ratchet you do have to increase leverage? Or a big ring spanner on the ratchet drive.

 

You are turning it the right way I spose:giggles:

Edited by rusty69
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I may not have fully grasped the situation (no surprise there I hear you cry). Could you not just slip a suitable bar over the ratchet you do have to increase leverage? Or a big ring spanner on the ratchet drive.

That would probably bust a 1/4'' drive ratchet.      Are their nuts on the other end?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I may not have fully grasped the situation (no surprise there I hear you cry). Could you not just slip a suitable bar over the ratchet you do have to increase leverage? Or a big ring spanner on the ratchet drive.

 

You are turning it the right way I spose:giggles:

 

11 minutes ago, bizzard said:

That would probably bust a 1/4'' drive ratchet.      Are their nuts on the other end?

Best not do that then. I don't want to be responsible for a dead rat yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they are allen head high tensile machine screws or bolts into the engine casting, no nuts on the other end, give them a sharp rap end ways on to loosen them.

Decent allen keys required that fit perfectly and bend rather than snap. Put a tube over the end for leverage.

 

If there are nuts on the ends, loosen those first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

That would probably bust a 1/4'' drive ratchet.      Are their nuts on the other end?

There are nuts on some but one in particular has no nut. It passes through the slot in the adjustment bar (suitably washered) but then goes into a threaded hole in the next bar. I was thinking of replacing it with an ordinary bolt if I can ever get it out.

 

The whole assembly is different to the photos in the Beta manual.

1 hour ago, stegra said:

Thanks, that is useful but I wonder how strong it would be.

 

I had the engine moved during the winter, the fitter must have had a gorilla as an apprentice.

Edited by frahkn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, frahkn said:

Job                - Tighten the alternator belt on my Beta 43

 

Problem        - The nuts which need to be loosened are not the usual sort (with hex heads).

                          Instead they are some sort of Allen bolt, round externally with a hole for an 8mm allen key in the head.

                          My allen key won’t work because the nuts are very tight.

                         I have an impact torque wrench set which includes  an“allen” type drive 30mm by 8mm and which fit the bolts. There is no room to use the wrench but the

                         8mm drive fits well in my 8mm socket.

                         The issue is that my small sockets came with a .25 inch ratchet drive. This is only about 6 inches long and does not give me the leverage to shift the bolt.

                         I have a big torque wrench at home or I could buy another (or some type of leverage bar) but my wrench has a .5 inch drive so would not fit the 8mm socket.

 

Question       - What is the cheapest way of solving this problem?

 

All advice gratefully accepted.

The reason a 1/4” wrench has a little handle is to stop you applying torque, otherwise it will break.

 

when you get it undone, it might be a good idea to fit a conventional bolt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, frahkn said:

There are nuts on some but one in particular has no nut. It passes through the slot in the adjustment bar (suitably washered) but then goes into a threaded hole in the next bar. I was thinking of replacing it with an ordinary bolt if I can ever get it out.

 

The whole assembly is different to the photos in the Beta manual.

Thanks, that is useful but I wonder how strong it would be.

 

I had the engine moved during the winter, the fitter must have had a gorilla as an apprentice.

If you can release the anchor bolt on the other end of the slotted adjustment bar then you could rock the bar  or tap it up and down on that adjusting bolt which would work it loose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a set of half inch sockets with hexagon (Allen) keys. They are invaluable for stuff like this.

I have a Beta engine, & both the alternators (12V & Travelpower) have the arrangement described, and they are easily managed with this set of tools.

I fear I don't remember where I got the Allen key sockets, it was donkeys years ago, but a quick search on line should find a source.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/09/2019 at 14:38, Murflynn said:

a bit like those clever tyre fitters who use a pneumatic gun on my wheel nuts and even my 13 stone on the end of a piece of scaffold tubing has little effect.

Some of the better shops provide their fitters with a torque wrench - unfortunately, they tighten til the wrench clicks and then give it another couple of grunts... just to make sure like.  :banghead:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/09/2019 at 11:49, frahkn said:

My allen key won’t work because the nuts are very tight.

 

Generous application of heat with the blowlamp before attempting to loosen them usually does the trick, along with (as suggested by Rusty) an extending tube over the Allen key for extra leverage.

 

If the Allen key snaps, use more heat and/or buy better quality Allen keys.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/10/2019 at 21:07, trackman said:

I have a set of half inch sockets with hexagon (Allen) keys. They are invaluable for stuff like this.

I have a Beta engine, & both the alternators (12V & Travelpower) have the arrangement described, and they are easily managed with this set of tools.

I fear I don't remember where I got the Allen key sockets, it was donkeys years ago, but a quick search on line should find a source.

 

Thanks, that's great.

 

Didn't know they existed but now I've got a set. Be back on the boat in a few weeks.

On 06/10/2019 at 21:16, Mike Tee said:

1/2 inch socket 8mm Allen key - loads on Amazon around a fiver

 

Yes, found them, thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/10/2019 at 22:37, Sea Dog said:

Some of the better shops provide their fitters with a torque wrench - unfortunately, they tighten til the wrench clicks and then give it another couple of grunts... just to make sure like.  :banghead:

That's because the alternative is a wheel coming loose and them being sued.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

Give them a good soak in Plusgas for a day and try again.

Yes, that will work - but not much consolation if stuck on the hard shoulder of a motorway, or some remote layby, with a flat.

So I carry one of these, never failed on me yet - do it up with the short handle (then torque it at home) and undo it with the long one

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rac-telescopic-wheel-wrench-17-19mm/7182R?kpid=7182R&ds_kid=92700030952053955&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1244066&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1249481&ds_rl=1249796&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI__uVsMCM5QIVg7TtCh2J5QgQEAQYAyABEgK6FvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, pearley said:

That's because the alternative is a wheel coming loose and them being sued.

Theyre less likely to come off if the wheel nuts are tightened to the correct torque, but you may well have identified the flawed logic behind their poor practice.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, pearley said:

That's because the alternative is a wheel coming loose and them being sued.

The wheel will also come loose if the studs/bolts shear off due to being overtightened!

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BWM said:

The wheel will also come loose if the studs/bolts shear off due to being overtightened!

 

Highly unlikely. Steel is very ductile meaning bolts or studs tend to stretch when overtightened rather than snap. 

 

Bolts/studs only tend to snap when twisted e.g. when heavily rusted and forced with long spanners/powerful impact wrenches.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Highly unlikely. Steel is very ductile meaning bolts or studs tend to stretch when overtightened rather than snap. 

 

Bolts/studs only tend to snap when twisted e.g. when heavily rusted and forced with long spanners/powerful impact wrenches.

 

 

It happens, i assume the additional heat and mixed metals causes them to fail but i have seen more than one occurrence of this. 

  As you have said, being forced by pneumatic impact machinery will achieve a shear, tyre fitters wind them up within a hair of their limit. A little corrosion between mag aluminium and steel, add a large amount of heat from braking and boom. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Highly unlikely. Steel is very ductile meaning bolts or studs tend to stretch when overtightened rather than snap. 

 

Bolts/studs only tend to snap when twisted e.g. when heavily rusted and forced with long spanners/powerful impact wrenches.

 

 

You tell that to the b'stard glow plug that lost its top today when tightening the nut back onto a new power feed. .....barely felt any tightening and pop, bugger snapped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.