Head Ruling The Heart

[Dr Bob]

5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

?

 

And then of course there are Gardners, which are key-start and indistinguishable to start from a modern engine.

We had a gardener till we sold the house earlier this year.

[Machpoint005]

On 29/09/2019 at 11:11, noddyboater said:

You can cut out 90% of the faff by using a thermostart glow plug on the inlet.

 

You can cut out 99.9% of the faff by recognising that diesel technology has moved on quite a bit in the last 80 years.

[roland elsdon]

Our gardener is useless at pushing the boat, thats why we have a proper engine.

 

popcorn?

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Our gardener is useless at pushing the boat, thats why we have a proper engine.

 

popcorn?

If you had a Bolinder you'd get pop...pop.....poppoppop...pop corn.

[dave moore]

For many years I ran a Kelvin J3 in Resolute, most of them with 2 glow plugs in the air intake. It took about a minute to oil round, another 20 seconds or so to fill the air intake with vapourised diesel, hit starter button and away. Not quite as convenient as simply turning a key, I’ll grant, but that motor had soul and a source of interest to many other boaters. Bloody expensive on Brasso, I never minded that.

[dmr]

58 minutes ago, Athy said:

If you had a Bolinder you'd get pop...pop.....poppoppop...pop corn.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

You can cut out 99.9% of the faff by recognising that diesel technology has moved on quite a bit in the last 80 years.

Being honest in inland boats they have hardly moved on at all Ian! In cars yes but modified from industrial engines not really no clean up devices mechanical fuel pumps a lot of old industrial engines were DIs thats why they will struggle with the consultation they would be no more than euro 1

[noddyboater]

3 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

You can cut out 99.9% of the faff by recognising that diesel technology has moved on quite a bit in the last 80 years.

Yes it’s moved on at a fantastic rate. I know this thanks very much as I’m a mechanic, and have to work on the fragile, pathetic things on a daily basis. 

Which is why working on a proper engine is a pleasure, you can use your hands and real tools, rather than a computer and the internet.

 I once stripped a knackered fuel pump on a jp3 and repaired it with an angle grinder and mig welder. Try doing that with your hdi, cdti, blah blah, yawn blah. Modern diesels are great, til they break. 

[roland elsdon]

14 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

Yes it’s moved on at a fantastic rate. I know this thanks very much as I’m a mechanic, and have to work on the fragile, pathetic things on a daily basis. 

Which is why working on a proper engine is a pleasure, you can use your hands and real tools, rather than a computer and the internet.

 I once stripped a knackered fuel pump on a jp3 and repaired it with an angle grinder and mig welder. Try doing that with your hdi, cdti, blah blah, yawn blah. Modern diesels are great, til they break. 

Can you imagine if they started messing around with dpfs on canal boats..

The warning light goes on and you have find a bit of deep river to run at a constant 75% throttle, or take to nearest dealer.

buying a ‘ new’ car last year couldnt find a single diesel that didnt have a record of needing dpf stuff between 75000 and 100000 miles.

course on the lister you just put in a fuel filter set the valves and clean the air filter.

then after 50 years its about due a warmover

[peterboat]

32 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

Yes it’s moved on at a fantastic rate. I know this thanks very much as I’m a mechanic, and have to work on the fragile, pathetic things on a daily basis. 

Which is why working on a proper engine is a pleasure, you can use your hands and real tools, rather than a computer and the internet.

 I once stripped a knackered fuel pump on a jp3 and repaired it with an angle grinder and mig welder. Try doing that with your hdi, cdti, blah blah, yawn blah. Modern diesels are great, til they break. 

Which they do all to regularly 

[mrsmelly]

36 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

Yes it’s moved on at a fantastic rate. I know this thanks very much as I’m a mechanic, and have to work on the fragile, pathetic things on a daily basis. 

Which is why working on a proper engine is a pleasure, you can use your hands and real tools, rather than a computer and the internet.

 I once stripped a knackered fuel pump on a jp3 and repaired it with an angle grinder and mig welder. Try doing that with your hdi, cdti, blah blah, yawn blah. Modern diesels are great, til they break. 

The twin fords on a boat I skipper have done over forty thousand hours, never had the heads off yet or had anything major break. Wouldnt like to think I was lumbered with twin jps with 150 passengers onboard. Horses for courses I suppose, hobby boats with Jps maybe?

[noddyboater]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

The twin fords on a boat I skipper have done over forty thousand hours, never had the heads off yet or had anything major break. Wouldnt like to think I was lumbered with twin jps with 150 passengers onboard. Horses for courses I suppose, hobby boats with Jps maybe?

These twin fords have the latest common rail, high output turbo, low emission, technology then? I doubt it very much. There’s modern industrial Diesel engines and the excuse for an engine that are currently being fitted in cars. To get the exhaust soot free takes a lot of extra “stuff”, which is largely made to a budget and doesn’t last long. Take an EGR cooler for instance on a modern car, £800-£1200 for something that most people haven’t got a clue what they’ve just payed for! 

And do you really think they’re aren’t Listers, Gardeners, etc that haven’t done 40,000 hours all over the world with minimal maintenance? 

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Thus writes a man who has neither owned a Kelvin nor discovered solar panels yet...

 

?

 

And then of course there are Gardners, which are key-start and indistinguishable to start from a modern engine. So similar in fact to a modern engine to own and run that there is some debate about whether they count as vintage motors at all.  

Didn't they fit them in busses? Ding ding.

[roland elsdon]

We had a citroen visa diesel in the 90s which had 390000 miles on it. We used it as a second car,   as i cycled to work unless it was pouring down. Ultimate leave it in the hedge car. The only thing i remember fixing was a clutch cylinder.

eventually i swapped it when moving to the land and changing jobs.

we sold it ( for more than we paid for it ) to a gentleman who worked ‘ on the roads’ and only wanted to confirm it would run on ‘the red’.

it had one previous owner  and a full service history (pages)but being ex driving school a million careless drivers.

no engine work bar cam belts as i recall.

[noddyboater]

20 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

We had a citroen visa diesel in the 90s which had 390000 miles on it. We used it as a second car,   as i cycled to work unless it was pouring down. Ultimate leave it in the hedge car. The only thing i remember fixing was a clutch cylinder.

eventually i swapped it when moving to the land and changing jobs.

we sold it ( for more than we paid for it ) to a gentleman who worked ‘ on the roads’ and only wanted to confirm it would run on ‘the red’.

it had one previous owner  and a full service history (pages)but being ex driving school a million careless drivers.

no engine work bar cam belts as i recall.

Old Citroen/Peugeot diesels were great. Ironically the most hateful incarnation of a modern diesel is the PSA Group (Peugeot) 1.6 hdi. 

These little beauties come in various high bhp, low torque guises, with enough built in faults to keep a mechanic busy for life! The turbo fails at low mileage due to oil starvation, the injectors leak if you dare to even look at them, they have a cam chain as well as a belt which wears its way through the head for something to do.. and there’s loads of plastic components so they aren’t even heavy enough to use as an anchor. 

You might think, “well that’s ok cos I’d never buy a Peugeot”, but what’s that lurking under the bonnet of your Mini? Or Ford.. Suzuki.. Mazda.. Volvo.. There’s even a list on bloomin Mum’s Net telling you which cars not to buy cos they have it fitted!

Edited September 30, 2019 by noddyboater
Beer

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, noddyboater said:

Old Citroen/Peugeot diesels were great. Ironically the most hateful incarnation of a modern diesel is the PSA Group (Peugeot) 1.6 hdi. 

These little beauties come in various high bhp, low torque guises, with enough built in faults to keep a mechanic busy for life! The turbo fails at low mileage due to oil starvation, the injectors leak if you dare to even look at them, they have a cam chain as well as a belt which wears its way through the head for something to do.. and there’s loads of plastic components so they aren’t even heavy enough to use as an anchor. 

You might, “well that’s ok cos I’d never buy a Peugeot”, but what’s that lurking under the bonnet of your Mini? Or Ford.. Suzuki.. Mazda.. Volvo.. There’s even a list on bloomin Mum’s Net telling you which cars not to buy cos they have it fitted!

Biggest issue is small sump and long service intervals but you are right in everything you say! 

[Athy]

11 hours ago, noddyboater said:

n anchor.

You might think, “well that’s ok cos I’d never buy a Peugeot”, but what’s that lurking under the bonnet of your Mini? Or Ford.. Suzuki.

We have a Suzuki S-Cross whose engine is, I discovered, Italian, but I don't know what make. Possibly a Fiat.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Athy

[Graham Davis]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

We have a Suzuki S-Cross whose engine is, I discovered, Italian, but I don't know what make.

Fix It Again Tomorrow!!

[Athy]

9 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Fix It Again Tomorrow!!

Oddly enough, I had added "possibly a Fiat" to my post but I must have neglected to push the Save button....which reminds me of a witticism which was used about the Austrian Steyr-Puch car: "You steyr and I'll puch".

[noddyboater]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

We have a Suzuki S-Cross whose engine is, I discovered, Italian, but I don't know what make. Possibly a Fiat.

You might be lucky, some of the diesel Suzuki’s have Fiat/Alfa/Gm multijet engines which is a good thing. You can tell if it’s the horrible Peugeot hdi by taking the plastic cover off the top, If it resembles a split open rabbits belly but all the guts are black plastic you’re unlucky. Sell it! 

[mrsmelly]

13 hours ago, noddyboater said:

These twin fords have the latest common rail, high output turbo, low emission, technology then? I doubt it very much. There’s modern industrial Diesel engines and the excuse for an engine that are currently being fitted in cars. To get the exhaust soot free takes a lot of extra “stuff”, which is largely made to a budget and doesn’t last long. Take an EGR cooler for instance on a modern car, £800-£1200 for something that most people haven’t got a clue what they’ve just payed for! 

And do you really think they’re aren’t Listers, Gardeners, etc that haven’t done 40,000 hours all over the world with minimal maintenance? 

Agreed, they are not the latest total crap diesel, they are however not Lister Jps or the like. How many Listers are still being made? They must be amazing to be still in production and used in modern plant. Dont get me wrong I a hate diesel engines in cars, petrol is King. Thing is I use my boat too much to pee about starting it and cuddling it. If I were a hobby boater I may well have an old knacker of an engine myself and maybe even batteries I actualy have to top up with water!!

[noddyboater]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Agreed, they are not the latest total crap diesel, they are however not Lister Jps or the like. How many Listers are still being made? They must be amazing to be still in production and used in modern plant. Dont get me wrong I a hate diesel engines in cars, petrol is King. Thing is I use my boat too much to pee about starting it and cuddling it. If I were a hobby boater I may well have an old knacker of an engine myself and maybe even batteries I actualy have to top up with water!!

It’s like a solid fuel stove in a way isn’t it, and I believe you’re a fan(don’t start that again!) of those. There’s more modern if not efficient ways of heating a boat, but for a bit of faff it’s worth it. I don’t think the old engine thing is anything to do with being a hobby or livaboard boater, you need to be an enthusiast of old engines. I wouldn’t wish my Gardner on someone who hasn’t got a clue how the oily bits work, because they wouldn’t thank me. I however can’t handle the idea of a traditional boat with all the trimmings buzzing down the cut like a suitcase generator.

[WotEver]

20 hours ago, Athy said:

If you had a Bolinder you'd get pop...pop.....poppoppop...pop corn.

 

 

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, noddyboater said:

It’s like a solid fuel stove in a way isn’t it, and I believe you’re a fan(don’t start that again!) of those. There’s more modern if not efficient ways of heating a boat, but for a bit of faff it’s worth it. I don’t think the old engine thing is anything to do with being a hobby or livaboard boater, you need to be an enthusiast of old engines. I wouldn’t wish my Gardner on someone who hasn’t got a clue how the oily bits work, because they wouldn’t thank me. I however can’t handle the idea of a traditional boat with all the trimmings buzzing down the cut like a suitcase generator.

Are pulled by horses.

[noddyboater]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Are pulled by horses.

Some were, but the majority still around aren’t. When I say traditional I mean the style, the shape, layout etc. When I say trimmings I don’t mean the stuff you have on a Christmas dinner. Just so you’re sure.