Generator: stoopid but important question

[magictime]

I'm wondering about getting a suitcase generator for battery charging, and the gas locker would appear to be the safest and most BSS-friendly place to store it. But having measured the hatch, most of 'em simply wouldn't fit through. The Kipor IG770 would, just about, if I tipped it right up on to its back (or front) every time I passed it through. Would that be asking for trouble - oil/petrol sloshing around etc.? Once it's down in the locker I think I could store it upright, but upending it to get it in and out seems less than ideal. 

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, magictime said:

I'm wondering about getting a suitcase generator for battery charging, and the gas locker would appear to be the safest and most BSS-friendly place to store it. But having measured the hatch, most of 'em simply wouldn't fit through. The Kipor IG770 would, just about, if I tipped it right up on to its back (or front) every time I passed it through. Would that be asking for trouble - oil/petrol sloshing around etc.? Once it's down in the locker I think I could store it upright, but upending it to get it in and out seems less than ideal. 

Ignoring the problems you have highlighted you will be fine as long as you are not using the gas-locker to keep your gas cylinder in.

 

From the BSS :

 

Cylinder lockers must not contain loose sharp or heavy items such as anchors
or mooring pins that could damage the cylinders or other LPG system
components.
Cylinder lockers must not contain any item that could ignite leaked LPG.

[magictime]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Ignoring the problems you have highlighted you will be fine as long as you are not using the gas-locker to keep your gas cylinder in.

 

From the BSS :

 

Cylinder lockers must not contain loose sharp or heavy items such as anchors
or mooring pins that could damage the cylinders or other LPG system
components.
Cylinder lockers must not contain any item that could ignite leaked LPG.

I should be all right as long as I don't leave it 'loose' then, surely? (Or is there some way a cooled, non-running generator could ignite leaked LPG?)

[MoominPapa]

37 minutes ago, magictime said:

I'm wondering about getting a suitcase generator for battery charging, and the gas locker would appear to be the safest and most BSS-friendly place to store it. But having measured the hatch, most of 'em simply wouldn't fit through. The Kipor IG770 would, just about, if I tipped it right up on to its back (or front) every time I passed it through. Would that be asking for trouble - oil/petrol sloshing around etc.? Once it's down in the locker I think I could store it upright, but upending it to get it in and out seems less than ideal. 

That's exactly what I do with mine, and no problem so far. Just remember to close the fuel cap vent before you up-end it.

 

MP.

[magictime]

4 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

That's exactly what I do with mine, and no problem so far. Just remember to close the fuel cap vent before you up-end it.

 

MP.

Good to know, thanks. When you say 'mine' do you mean the same specific model? How have you found it? 

[MtB]

I have a sneaky feeling the generator is capable of delivering a spark, which is in turn capable of igniting leaked gas. 
 

 

[magictime]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

I have a sneaky feeling the generator is capable of delivering a spark, which is in turn capable of igniting leaked gas. 
 

 

I suppose I should know this forum well enough by now not to walk into things like that... assuming that I reassure the BSS examiner I'm not planning to fire it up while in the locker, then, do you think he'd be happy?

[MoominPapa]

13 minutes ago, magictime said:

Good to know, thanks. When you say 'mine' do you mean the same specific model? How have you found it? 

Yes, IG770. Very pleased, so far. Enough power (just) to run a 45A charger, starts easily, no failures. Keep the oil level topped up, the low oil sensor is sensitive, and just stops the machine when it triggers. The only problem I've found is that the plastic panel with the controls and socket is a bit flimsy and flexes alarmingly when removing a commando plug from the socket.

 

MP.

[Chewbacka]

About 3 years ago I was at Crick show listening to a guy trying to sell a genny, the ‘customer’ explained she had nowhere to keep it, to which he said “keep it in the shower when you are not using it.”  Not where I would keep mine, and certainly not for a bss check!!!

[magictime]

2 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Yes, IG770. Very pleased, so far. Enough power (just) to run a 45A charger, starts easily, no failures. Keep the oil level topped up, the low oil sensor is sensitive, and just stops the machine when it triggers. The only problem I've found is that the plastic panel with the controls and socket is a bit flimsy and flexes alarmingly when removing a commando plug from the socket.

 

MP.

Thanks. I think I might go for it. The size issue has pretty much ruled out splashing out on a Honda EU10i, and this one was probably my second choice anyway. And it's 'only' £263 to see how I get on with it over winter, rather than running the engine for 3 hours or more every day. I'm wondering about 1-2 hours of engine running for hot water and a bulk charge every morning, plus running the tank dry on this every other day (4 or 5 hours?). Oh and my battery charger is only 30A, so no worries there!

 

 

[MoominPapa]

4 minutes ago, magictime said:

I'm wondering about 1-2 hours of engine running for hot water and a bulk charge every morning, plus running the tank dry on this every other day (4 or 5 hours?). Oh and my battery charger is only 30A, so no worries there!

I have Lithium batteries now, so such punishing schedules are behind me. It going to be too rainy to move much over the next few days, so a tank full of generator-juice today took them from 38% to 88% and we're sorted for the next three days or so. With Lithiums, it's worth getting a charger that uses as much of the available output as possible, to reduce running time. That's less critical with dino-batteries, which will take less charge as they fill up anyway.

 

Looking at the logs, a full tank lasted five hours and put 200Ah at 13.5v into the bank, plus providing for our usage during that time, of course.

 

MP

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

I should be all right as long as I don't leave it 'loose' then, surely?

It will need to be 'strapped down' so it cannot move, then you can argue with the examiner that it complies.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

I'm wondering about getting a suitcase generator for battery charging, and the gas locker would appear to be the safest and most BSS-friendly place to store it. But having measured the hatch, most of 'em simply wouldn't fit through. The Kipor IG770 would, just about, if I tipped it right up on to its back (or front) every time I passed it through. Would that be asking for trouble - oil/petrol sloshing around etc.? Once it's down in the locker I think I could store it upright, but upending it to get it in and out seems less than ideal. 

Ain’t you got no solar panels ?

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

'm wondering about 1-2 hours of engine running for hot water and a bulk charge every morning, plus running the tank dry on this every other day (4 or 5 hours?).

 

Boy am I glad I'm not moored next to you!!

 

 

 

Anti-social or what?

 

 

 

[magictime]

50 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Ain’t you got no solar panels ?

 

Yes, but they're not much use over winter.

 

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Boy am I glad I'm not moored next to you!!

 

 

 

Anti-social or what?

 

 

 

Do you find suitcase gennies are typically noisier than running engines then? I can't say I've ever been conscious of much more than a background thrum either way (we've mooored close to boats with both). What does your charging regime involve, out of interest? Not being funny, it's just that a lot is said on here about how long it takes to charge batteries properly but I'm much less clear on what people tend to do in practice.

[MtB]

28 minutes ago, magictime said:

 

 

Do you find suitcase gennies are typically noisier than running engines then? I can't say I've ever been conscious of much more than a background thrum either way (we've mooored close to boats with both). What does your charging regime involve, out of interest? Not being funny, it's just that a lot is said on here about how long it takes to charge batteries properly but I'm much less clear on what people tend to do in practice.

 

I find both gennies and engines deeply intrusive, and either running will completely ruin a lovely warm summer or autumn afternoon or evening on the water. There is nearly always one running!

 

My charging regime for nine months of the year is solar, nothing else is needed. For the three dark months my near-silent Whispergen takes over. Sounds much the same as a silenced eberspatcher and very unobtrusive. Boat next to mine says he never notices when I have it running. 

 

And when I eventually properly commission the lithiums an hour of Whispergen in the morning on alternate days in deep winter will be plenty, hopefully. 

 

All this is only necessary as I have a home mooring and don't move much. If I CCed properly and cruised every day or alternate days, engine alone in winter would be adequate. The PITA boaters are the pretend CCers who moor for 14 days (near me) than cruise for an hour, then moor 14 days etc etc. 

 

For minimising engine/genny running given Whipergens are like hens' teeth, I still think there is mileage in using a pair of battery banks like I once proposed and Cereal Tiller says he perfected. Charge one to 80% and then charge the other to 80%. Then use one to drive an inverter/charger to silently fully charge the other bank. Then re-charge the charging bank to 80%. Then swap over after a day or two. Basically this avoids using an engine or genny for the long slow final charge to 100%. Need to be Trojans or decent batts that will cope with a good hard desulphation cycle every few months.  

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Mike the Boilerman
Clarify.

[MoominPapa]

46 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I still think there is mileage in using a pair of battery banks like I once proposed and Cereal Tiller says he perfected. Charge one to 80% and then charge the other to 80%. Then use one to drive an inverter/charger to silently fully charge the other bank. Then re-charge the charging bank to 80%. Then swap over after a day or two. Basically this avoids using an engine or genny for the long slow final charge to 100%. Need to be Trojans or decent batts that will cope with a good hard desulphation cycle every few months.  

This might have been a good idea before LiFePO4 was available, but these days, as you have Lithium available, why bother?

 

MP.

 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

This might have been a good idea before LiFePO4 was available, but these days, as you have Lithium available, why bother?

 

MP.

 

 

I have lithium, but Magictime doesn't!

 

 

But basically I agree with your point. 

 

 

[magictime]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I find both gennies and engines deeply intrusive, and either running will completely ruin a lovely warm summer or autumn afternoon or evening on the water. There is nearly always one running!

 

My charging regime for nine months of the year is solar, nothing else is needed. For the three dark months my near-silent Whispergen takes over. Sounds much the same as a silenced eberspatcher and very unobtrusive. Boat next to mine says he never notices when I have it running. 

 

And when I eventually properly commission the lithiums an hour of Whispergen in the morning on alternate days in deep winter will be plenty, hopefully. 

 

All this is only necessary as I have a home mooring and don't move much. If I CCed properly and cruised every day or alternate days, engine alone in winter would be adequate. The PITA boaters are the pretend CCers who moor for 14 days (near me) than cruise for an hour, then moor 14 days etc etc. 

 

For minimising engine/genny running given Whipergens are like hens' teeth, I still think there is mileage in using a pair of battery banks like I once proposed and Cereal Tiller says he perfected. Charge one to 80% and then charge the other to 80%. Then use one to drive an inverter/charger to silently fully charge the other bank. Then re-charge the charging bank to 80%. Then swap over after a day or two. Basically this avoids using an engine or genny for the long slow final charge to 100%. Need to be Trojans or decent batts that will cope with a good hard desulphation cycle every few months.  

 

Mostly that sort of background noise doesn't bother me. Personally I wouldn't expect to be running the engine/gennie for long if at all in summer/autumn; it's the absence of solar in winter I need to find a way to address.

 

Whispergens and wacky battery arrangements are maybe not realistic options, and alas I am just the sort of PITA pretend CCer who thinks 50 or 100 miles over the winter months, with plenty of one- and two-week stays along the way, is fair enough. (Thankfully CRT agree with me.) I can't see how it would be realistic to keep up a 'full' daily-ish cruising schedule during stoppage season even if I wanted to; this year we're planning to do a chunk of the T&M and Caldon because we think it should be relatively straightforward to keep moving, slowly, for a few months, without getting stuck. Everywhere else we've looked is much more dense with stoppages. 

 

So yeah, I don't really see a way around having to run SOMETHING for a few hours every day or two. Sorry. Maybe I should be looking at lithiums… d'oh… always something new to spend money on...

[blackrose]

14 hours ago, magictime said:

I suppose I should know this forum well enough by now not to walk into things like that... assuming that I reassure the BSS examiner I'm not planning to fire it up while in the locker, then, do you think he'd be happy?

 

No, you'd need to remove it beforehand

[CompairHolman]

14 hours ago, magictime said:

Mostly that sort of background noise doesn't bother me. Personally I wouldn't expect to be running the engine/gennie for long if at all in summer/autumn; it's the absence of solar in winter I need to find a way to address.

 

Whispergens and wacky battery arrangements are maybe not realistic options, and alas I am just the sort of PITA pretend CCer who thinks 50 or 100 miles over the winter months, with plenty of one- and two-week stays along the way, is fair enough. (Thankfully CRT agree with me.) I can't see how it would be realistic to keep up a 'full' daily-ish cruising schedule during stoppage season even if I wanted to; this year we're planning to do a chunk of the T&M and Caldon because we think it should be relatively straightforward to keep moving, slowly, for a few months, without getting stuck. Everywhere else we've looked is much more dense with stoppages. 

 

So yeah, I don't really see a way around having to run SOMETHING for a few hours every day or two. Sorry. Maybe I should be looking at lithiums… d'oh… always something new to spend money on...

You can run a generator as long as you like if either no one is moored within earshot, or you have their permission , if you disturbed my peace and quiet for hours every day I would hoof your generator into the canal.  

[Chewbacka]

38 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

You can run a generator as long as you like if either no one is moored within earshot, or you have their permission , if you disturbed my peace and quiet for hours every day I would hoof your generator into the canal.  

Or to put it a bit more tactfully, you can not run at night if others object, but that does not mean you can run as much as you like during the day, you are still expected to be considerate to those around you.

[magictime]

2 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

You can run a generator as long as you like if either no one is moored within earshot, or you have their permission , if you disturbed my peace and quiet for hours every day I would hoof your generator into the canal.  

Really? You wouldn't, say, knock, explain politely that the noise was bothering you, and ask me if I could move or run it another time? You sound like a real charmer. I won't respond in kind with threats against your property, but I would of course get the police involved if you acted in the way you describe.

 

You might be disappointed to hear that you will probably never get the excuse to pick a fight with me or destroy my property as, being a nice considerate person, I am (as I implied with the comment about lithiums) actively investigating the battery options likely to require the least amount of static engine/generator running, with lead carbons currently the front runners.

[CompairHolman]

11 minutes ago, magictime said:

Really? You wouldn't, say, knock, explain politely that the noise was bothering you, and ask me if I could move or run it another time? You sound like a real charmer. I won't respond in kind with threats against your property, but I would of course get the police involved if you acted in the way you describe.

 

You might be disappointed to hear that you will probably never get the excuse to pick a fight with me or destroy my property as, being a nice considerate person, I am (as I implied with the comment about lithiums) actively investigating the battery options likely to require the least amount of static engine/generator running, with lead carbons currently the front runners.

Don't panic , I meant if you kept doing it after I asked you not to. 

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Don't panic , I meant if you kept doing it after I asked you not to. 

 

Very deftly defused...!