Jump to content

Gate opening the old way


Dav and Pen

Featured Posts

Obviously against the byelaws anyway but I'd advise anyone thinking of thumblining to have a good look at the condition of the mitre post. 

 

It did occur to me that could have been what caused the balance beam on one of the bottom gates at Denham deep to break off recently. 

 

Yes the handrails are strong enough but is the actual gate up to it? 

 

Eta image posted by Tim Lewis in the Problem at Denham thread in "stoppages". 

17514D7F-A3DE-48BE-8085-20D79EC57FB4.jpeg

I really would not wish to have been thumblining that one !!

 

 

 

Edited by magnetman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, bizzard said:

Yet there appears to be someone pushing the righthand gate. I can see a windlass in their hand.

Line from the butty is not tight yet so probably kust standing there

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Obviously against the byelaws anyway but I'd advise anyone thinking of thumblining to have a good look at the condition of the mitre post. 

 

It did occur to me that could have been what caused the balance beam on one of the bottom gates at Denham deep to break off recently. 

 

Yes the handrails are strong enough but is the actual gate up to it? 

 

Eta image posted by Tim Lewis in the Problem at Denham thread in "stoppages". 

17514D7F-A3DE-48BE-8085-20D79EC57FB4.jpeg

I really would not wish to have been thumblining that one !!

 

 

 

Nothing in the bye laws to say not to thumb line and also the gate rails are shaped the way they are so you can thumbling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

Obviously against the byelaws anyway but I'd advise anyone thinking of thumblining to have a good look at the condition of the mitre post. 

 

It did occur to me that could have been what caused the balance beam on one of the bottom gates at Denham deep to break off recently. 

 

Yes the handrails are strong enough but is the actual gate up to it? 

 

The handrail has to be able to take reasonable forces from someone crossing the gate. And the gate beneath has to be strong enough to take those forces through the handrail fixings. 

The forces applied when thumblining, with the boats starting from rest, can't be that large. So if the handrail is adequate for pedestrians, then it should be fine for thumblining.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched with interest  the video of opening the gates with ropes, as it's one of those moves that I've always fancied trying but never got round to. Thank you, Brian, for posting it.

 

The bit I don't understand is, how do they get the ropes off the gates afterwards without touching them? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Athy said:

I watched with interest  the video of opening the gates with ropes, as it's one of those moves that I've always fancied trying but never got round to. Thank you, Brian, for posting it.

 

The bit I don't understand is, how do they get the ropes off the gates afterwards without touching them? 

They use a hitch which as the boat moves forward drops off. It is the boat pulling back against the hitch that keeps it tight to open the gates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Athy said:

I watched with interest  the video of opening the gates with ropes, as it's one of those moves that I've always fancied trying but never got round to. Thank you, Brian, for posting it.

 

The bit I don't understand is, how do they get the ropes off the gates afterwards without touching them? 

The line from the mast traps the loose end against the hand rail upright when pulling the gates open but ceases to trap the line as the ropes go slack once the gates are open. As the boats leave the lock the line just comes off the hand rail and drops into the boat or the water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, barry adams said:

Line from the butty is not tight yet so probably kust standing there

Nothing in the bye laws to say not to thumb line and also the gate rails are shaped the way they are so you can thumbling.

I suppose its open to interpretation but 25(a) from the 1965 bye laws seems to prohibit opening gates other than with the balance beams. This would also in theory prohibit breasting the gates open - something else that is/was commonplace.

 

I agree the rails appear to be deliberately designed for this purpose but I still don't think handrails are classed as "means provided for that purpose" .

 

An obvious problem with thumblining or breasting gates is that you have the engine power and weight of the boat to help force the gates before they are ready. Something else specifically prohibited. 

 

I reckon if you involve ropes and the boat you are not using "means provided for that purpose". It is precisely these potentially damaging maneuvers which the byelaw is seeking to prevent.

 

 

Screenshot201909251815531569431778.png

Edited by magnetman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As you say its open to interpretation but as the hand rail are curved deliberatly to enable the gates to be opened by the boats easing back on the gate lines. I would say that that is in accordance with the bye laws.

Another example is the closing of gates without the use of the balance beam by using the vertical post on some single locks that is higher than it need be so you can put a turn around it to do two things 1 - close the gate as you come in and 2 - to stop the boat ( gently once the gate is shut. Cannot remember where but some of the gate posts had iron / steel vertical bands up them to protect the wood. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, barry adams said:

As you say its open to interpretation but as the hand rail are curved deliberatly to enable the gates to be opened by the boats easing back on the gate lines. I would say that that is in accordance with the bye laws.

Another example is the closing of gates without the use of the balance beam by using the vertical post on some single locks that is higher than it need be so you can put a turn around it to do two things 1 - close the gate as you come in and 2 - to stop the boat ( gently once the gate is shut. Cannot remember where but some of the gate posts had iron / steel vertical bands up them to protect the wood. 

One minute twenty eight seconds into this video 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, barry adams said:

As you say its open to interpretation but as the hand rail are curved deliberatly to enable the gates to be opened by the boats easing back on the gate lines. I would say that that is in accordance with the bye laws.

Another example is the closing of gates without the use of the balance beam by using the vertical post on some single locks that is higher than it need be so you can put a turn around it to do two things 1 - close the gate as you come in and 2 - to stop the boat ( gently once the gate is shut. Cannot remember where but some of the gate posts had iron / steel vertical bands up them to protect the wood. 

Strapping the gates shut is an interesting one yes I have seen some gates somewhere with the bands you refer to. If this was used to also stop the boat they would have been sliced off regularly. You would need something a lot more substantial to slip the rope in order to actually stop the boat. Like a strapping post anchored into the ground. 

 

"Means provided" indicates that the means are already there and you may not introduce your own equipment ie a rope. Use of a rope to operate gates is not therefore allowed by the byelaw. I'm sure that's what they meant. All these rope techniques are handy but at the end of the day they risk causing damage.

 

I think the handrail shape could be completely unrelated to thumblining.

 

If you think about handrails you want them to be more or less continuous right to the end of the gate and almost join when gates are shut. For safety. No big gaps.  How do you fix a cast iron handrail butterfly right at the mitre end of the lock gate,? It would split the wood. They are large items secured by 3 spikes or bolts with a vertical hole which the handrail sits in. Solid bit of gear as are the handrails.

 Solution is you mount the butterfly further in  away from the end of the wood and bend the rail itself outwards to get the required continuity of grip. Otherwise it will break off when the butterfly inevitably detaches due to split wood. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by magnetman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

Blaggers showing how it is done, close up.

 

 

Embarrassingly bad to the extent that almost nothing goes right with it.

I've always been surprised that he didn't want to have it suppressed!

We have more than oncebeen quite significantly held up by the NBT trying to play these games, and hence taking far longer to get a pair through a lock than if they simply hadn't tried it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

If as suggested above the handrails on the gates are curved for this specific purpose then this technique must have originated with horse boating since that shape of handrail predates motor boats. Is this the case?

 

JP

How would you put a horse boat into reverse to open the gates?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

How would you put a horse boat into reverse to open the gates?

I very much doubt the notion that the reason for shape of the handrails is to facilitate this technique, hence the question. I suspect this is a fairly modern technique but I have no actual knowledge of that.

 

JP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.