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cougie

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Hello everyone what a useful forum this is. I have learnt a lot from lurking. 

We are seriously considering buying an off peak share in a Narrowboat. It seems a good way to get a decent taste of boating as we approach our retirement age. 

 

One question I thought of though - if not all of the shares are sold - I guess the missing share costs would be spread among the rest of the owners ?

 

Presumably along with the unused weeks ? 

 

Is it common for shares to be unsold for many months at a time ?

 

Thanks. 

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Are you sure that you can buy an off-peak share? A shire-boater recently explained to me how time was allocated by his syndicate. Each member had the right to choose one peak-period share and one off-peak share, with his other two weeks being allocated on a rota system.

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17 minutes ago, cougie said:

Hello everyone what a useful forum this is. I have learnt a lot from lurking. 

We are seriously considering buying an off peak share in a Narrowboat. It seems a good way to get a decent taste of boating as we approach our retirement age. 

 

One question I thought of though - if not all of the shares are sold - I guess the missing share costs would be spread among the rest of the owners ?

 

Presumably along with the unused weeks ? 

 

Is it common for shares to be unsold for many months at a time ?

 

Thanks

 

I had shares in boats for 22 years before finally buying a whole one.

 

For a shareboat where the entire boat is owned by the shareholders (the usual case but I believe some companies used to retain a 4% stake in the boat) the cost associated with the unsold share remain the responsibility of the seller of the share.

 

The only exception to this is when the existing shareholders decide to reduce the number of shares and buy any shares between them as they come up for sale.

 

As Athy says, you typically get "summer" (April - October) and "winter" (November - March) shares in a shareboat.

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31 minutes ago, cougie said:

Oh yes definitely can do off peak. We haven't got school age kids so no need to have the more expensive peak share. 

 

I think the reply was not aimed at 'can you work with off-peak' shares, but the fact that there is normally not 'only off peak' shares available - the shares are 'divied' up on a rota basis - you can of course swop your summer shares with someone's winter shares for that year.

 

It is not like a 'time-share' in Spain, where you buy a specific week and that's your week in perpetuity.

 

As Athy explained :

 

A share-boater recently explained to me how time was allocated by his syndicate. Each member had the right to choose one peak-period share and one off-peak share, with his other two weeks being allocated on a rota system.

 

Edit : Never say Never - some share syndicates may have fixed 'Summer' weeks at a premium price but I guess they would struggle to sell the November to March ones to many people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Thanks. So theoretically it could be a while before I could be clear of my commitments should I want to change my mind about boating. That's fine. 

 

Are there any snags I might not have considered about share boating ? As it stands we could only boat for a couple of weeks a year at the moment anyway so buying our own boat would be a bit unnecessary. Share boating seems a great option. 

 

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I have no idea of the price of such a share. But if you can spend only two weeks per year boating, it would be worth comparing the annual cost with two weeks' hire (and hire companies DO offer lower prices for off-peak hiring). You would get the pride of (part) ownership but you might end up with more pounds in the bank. Additionally, you could hire in a different part of the country for each of your weeks.

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1 minute ago, cougie said:

Are there any snags I might not have considered about share boating ?

With your own boat, everything from clothes to tools to toothbush is on board and you can get away for a couple of days, a weekend, or a week (or more) whenever you can fit it in.

With a share-boat it is like going to stay in a hotel - you have to take all of your personal 'stuff' with you, then pack it up and take it back home again at the end of the week(s)

 

If you can only get away for a 'couple of weeks' for the next year or two why not just hire a boat - it will be exactly the same as having a share boat (ie you have to take everything with you) but without the cost.

With a share boat you will be paying for 1/12 share and using only 1/2 of that time. You will be paying 1/12 of running costs, maintenance, etc etc and only getting 1/24th of the time.

If the engine needs replacing or the boat needs painting in your time as an 'owner' you will be hit with 1/12 of a large bill.

 

Your share boat will (normally) move areas every year after a "owners vote", whilst it may start off near your home, it could easily be moved to York, London, Oxford or Birmingham next year.

 

I shared a boat with the Brother-In-Law - never again - not falling out just disagreements on what, how etc it should be used.

 

With a hire boat - you pay for your week and there is nothing else to pay - if you breakdown they come and sort it, if you run out of gas, they come and sort it.

 

With such a limited availability of time I would suggest that hiring is the most stress-free and economical route to go.

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1 minute ago, Jerra said:

I have seen some shares advertised where you do in fact buy set weeks, so it does happen.

Thank you - I assumed there may be an odd 1 or 2, hence my :

 

52 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Never say Never - some share syndicates may have fixed 'Summer' weeks at a premium price but I guess they would struggle to sell the November to March ones to many people.

 

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The old Ownerships system had "special" shares which included school holiday weeks (especially summer) and "ordinary" shares which did not. I can't remember the premium but I think it was about 20%.

 

There were a few annoying aspects of "shared ownership" - some of them silly unimportant stuff, but you don't want first world problems either when you go for a spell of boating. In no particular order:

 

1. Having to book your weeks on board anything up to 18 months in advance, when your normal life is unpredictable from day to day.  

2. Having to take all your clothes and personal effects with you to the boat, and remove them at the end of the trip.

3. Other "owners" stowing the boat's kit in completely illogical places.

4. Long road journeys to and from the boat's base.

5. Having to arrive back at base the day before your cruise "ends", because the boat has to be cleaned and serviced before the next trip.

6. Fellow owners moaning about brasswork that is less than sparkling. If you want to polish mushrooms, feel free, but don't expect me to do it.

7. Interminable owners' meetings where the colour of new curtains is discussed for two hours at a stretch. 

8. The expectation that you will fill in a diary or log If we want to sit on the boat doing sod-all and going nowhere, that's exactly what we will do.

 

I should add that as former members of an Ownerships syndicate, we got out and bought our own boat about 18 months before they went bump. We even got back our contribution to the "sinking fund"!

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Having just bought a share in a boat, I hope I can add to this:

 

Carefree Cruising (with whom we bought) definitely offers peak (school holiday), peak (non-school holiday) and off-peak shares.

 

As for what happens if a share isn't sold then if it's a private syndicate then I suspect there would be a "share out the burden" clause.  If it's run by a company then selling the final - or even second - share is their problem.

 

While shares bought through a company carry a higher annual fee (you need to pay for the company's management) the reason we went for one is that, should anything not be done correctly, we can bring the matter up in terms of a company not doing its job whereas if it's a private syndicate that conversation would always have the opportunity to be fraught with a level of personal rancour that we chose to avoid.

 

As for the cost, we're going to end up with four weeks' annual time for the cost of a week of renting. The share price is recoverable (less depreciation) when we sell our share so we consider that to be a loan to our holiday fund of which we'll eventually retrieve a portion.

Edited by Onionman
The spelling error you always see at the exact second you hit "submit"
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4 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

 

As for the cost, we're going to end up with four weeks' annual time for the cost of a week of renting. The share price is recoverable (less depreciation) when we sell our share so we consider that to be a loan to our holiday fund of which we'll eventually retrieve a portion.

Good information. From what you say, it does look worthwhile.

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We had a share for 8 years on set weeks. As shares came on the market we bought them and ended up with just 4 share holders, we went self managed when the company went tits up, the process was not pleasant as the company still owned a share and we had to buy it off them. At this point they were still trading. We paid no where near £12000 (or the equivalent) a year maintenance once we were self managed. The shears were sold from a calendar and were fixed, not drawn each year, extra weeks when the boat wasn't being used were available for a payment into the maintenance kitty.

So it can be done. I worked out after the initial share purchase I was getting 4 weeks on a very nice 60 foot boat for the same coast as one and a half weeks on a bottom of the market, 45 foot old hire boat.

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I would still suggest a week or a long weekends hire before you buy a share. Firstly you will get some training even if limited, and you are bashing a hire company's boat about not yours. Secondly you will learn a huge amount about what you like and what irritates you about the boating life.  Shares can be bought in a day, but can take many months to sell, even years one of my work colleagues took 18 months to sell his share, during which time if the boat was not being used in his weeks he had to pay his maintenance (worked out about half annual cost) even though he was physically not able to use the time.

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1 hour ago, Detling said:

I would still suggest a week or a long weekends hire before you buy a share. Firstly you will get some training even if limited, and you are bashing a hire company's boat about not yours. Secondly you will learn a huge amount about what you like and what irritates you about the boating life.  Shares can be bought in a day, but can take many months to sell, even years one of my work colleagues took 18 months to sell his share, during which time if the boat was not being used in his weeks he had to pay his maintenance (worked out about half annual cost) even though he was physically not able to use the time.

I would totally agree.

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We had a "Yellow" off peak share in a boat managed by Carefree Cruising. It was a four week share and the annual maintenance costs were about the same as hiring a boat for a week. We could choose three "yellow weeks" which were from March - May and Sept - Oct (not school holidays). We could also choose 1 "Blue week" during the period November to February. We had the share for 5 years after which we sold the share. We were responsible for the maintenance costs untill the share was sold. All in all it was worth doing and we enjoyed those 5 years boating very much. Then I gave up work and we bought a boat outright which we then lived on.

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Its interesting to see the different ways the weeks are allocated between different syndicates. With Aurora (BCBM share), we have a list system which worked great as everyone gets the chance of cruising in all seasons eventually - no 'red' or 'yellow'  shares...  My share is for sale if anyone interested?  :)

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We were part of a private share boat for 10 years. Initially there wer 5 owners but when shares were sold they were sometimes split so it ended up with more. For the cost of two week hire we got upto 10weeks boating. The group had a meeting each year and agreed where the boat was to go = it did not return to a base excpet at the end of the main boating season. This worked and the boat went and still does go all over the system. I know that this year it has spent several weeks on the Thames and is currently heading nort on the Oxford. We only sold our share when we decided to buy our own boat. The ten years were a great learning experience as we did all our own maintenance. It gave me the confidence to do a lot of work on our own boat.

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On ‎20‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 13:28, cougie said:

Hello everyone what a useful forum this is. I have learnt a lot from lurking. 

We are seriously considering buying an off peak share in a Narrowboat. It seems a good way to get a decent taste of boating as we approach our retirement age. 

 

One question I thought of though - if not all of the shares are sold - I guess the missing share costs would be spread among the rest of the owners ?

 

Presumably along with the unused weeks ? 

 

Is it common for shares to be unsold for many months at a time ?

Just food for thought but I am retiring this year as well and considering either an outright buy or share option. I am overseas and wish to use the boat in continues blocks of time i.e. 3monthe to 6 months and staying overseas in winter therefore share options with weekly allotments are not for me and outright ownership means paying for storage for long periods. I am also considering joint ownership with 1 or two other parties and splitting all purchase, maintenance and wintering costs and having use of the boat for some agreed periods.

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1 hour ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 I am also considering joint ownership with 1 or two other parties and splitting all purchase, maintenance and wintering costs and having use of the boat for some agreed periods.

Surely that is exactly what share boating is, except you are thinking of setting up your own group of people with similar needs to yours, rather than buying into an already established syndicate.

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5 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

Just food for thought but I am retiring this year as well and considering either an outright buy or share option. I am overseas and wish to use the boat in continues blocks of time i.e. 3monthe to 6 months and staying overseas in winter therefore share options with weekly allotments are not for me and outright ownership means paying for storage for long periods. I am also considering joint ownership with 1 or two other parties and splitting all purchase, maintenance and wintering costs and having use of the boat for some agreed periods.

That is how ours ended up with just 4 of us owning the boat. Worked very well because we all knew and trusted each other, well I trusted the other 3, dont know their view about me.

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