Greetings - First post - Boat Build

[Welshy]

Greetings.  

 

First off. I'll give a little introduction.

 

The names Connor, pleasure to meet you.  I live and work in China, been here for 3 years arriving when I was 22 years old.  

 

 

I am now thinking long term options, as an investment/retirement blah blah blah...  Foot in the door scenario. - You get the idea.  

 

I am currently in contact with a boat building company here that ships boats worldwide, they have confirmed that a narrow boat is within their category of builds and upon checking out their factory found its rather large and professional - owned by American yacht makers.  

 

My plan, is to have them fabricate the bareshell, have it delivered to the UK. put in storage and over the next two years have goods that I need shipped to the UK (basically the whole interior). 

 

This is the crux of the post, I am looking for a boatyard - storage facility that will allow me to get things delivered and keep in storage. Things like electrical components, interior fitout, all the paint almost everything I need so when the time comes, I can just start piecing everything together and have a self sufficient live aboard. 

 

If anyone has construction plans for a 50 - 60 foot traditional cruiser with the bedroom at the front, please could you get in touch.  

 

Also, narrowboats made from Aluminium is a no go? Or is this something that is rare but possible.  

 

All replies are welcome, but please bare in mind, I am a single 25 year old that does not have a spare 30k laying around to just buy an off the shelf good to go cruiser. 

 

 

Regards Connor

Edited September 18, 2019 by Welshy

[Ray T]

"Also, narrowboats made from Aluminium is a no go? Or is this something that is rare but possible."  

 

"Sea Otter" have made loads & loads of aluminum boats.

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sea+otter+narrowboats&FORM=HDRSC2

Edited September 18, 2019 by Ray T

[BilgePump]

Very smart sea otter boat a few moorings from mine. 

[Boater Sam]

11 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Very smart sea otter boat a few moorings from mine. 

They burn very well, all the way down to the water.

 

If you want slightly unconventional, how about stainless steel? Massive high resale value I would think.

[Welshy]

22 minutes ago, Ray T said:

"Also, narrowboats made from Aluminium is a no go? Or is this something that is rare but possible."  

 

"Sea Otter" have made loads & loads of aluminum boats.

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sea+otter+narrowboats&FORM=HDRSC2

Thank you for the reply! I am glad that one of the questions was clarified.  

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, Welshy said:

I am currently in contact with a boat building company here that ships boats worldwide, they have confirmed that a narrow boat is within their category of builds and upon checking out their factory found its rather large and professional - owned by American yacht makers.  

Are they aware of, and do they build to the RCD standards (European Recreational Craft Directive) that lists such things as rigidity of hull, buoyancy, angle of heel, the types of electric cables, the types of copper gas pipes  etc etc etc.

 

You will also be charged duty and 20% VAT on the purchase price ( plus 20% VAT on the transport cost) on arrival in the UK.

I looked at bringing boats in from the USA but to get them EU compliant on top of the purchase price, shipping charges VAT & Duty made them more expensive than buying a boat in the EU in the 1st place.

 

Just so you are aware.

[Welshy]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are they aware of, and do they build to the RCD standards (European Recreational Craft Directive) that lists such things as rigidity of hull, buoyancy, angle of heel, the types of electric cables, the types of copper gas pipes  etc etc etc.

 

You will also be charged duty and 20% VAT on the purchase price ( plus 20% VAT on the transport cost) on arrival in the UK.

I looked at bringing boats in from the USA but to get them EU compliant on top of the purchase price, shipping charges VAT & Duty made them more expensive than buying a boat in the EU in the 1st place.

 

Just so you are aware.

Yes, we discussed this over the last few days, they are fully complient and know the RCD regulations and laws.. In regards to tax, they are lenient on the purchase value.  I'll be purchasing using Chinese Yuan from Chinese a Chinese bank account so this simplifies the matter somewhat. 

[Richard10002]

My boat is out of the water at a DIY yard for a bit of blacking and other maintenance. In the water by my trolley is a new looking boat that the owner has been visiting doing a few bits and pieces inside.

 

I had a chat with him briefly, about his "new boat" and he told me that he bought the shell 3 years ago, eventually painted it, and is just getting round to finishing it off.... maybe. He's a joiner by trade and said he thought it would be a straightforward and simple, (for him), thing to do.

 

I got the impression that, with hindsight, he wishes he had bought a secondhand turnkey boat.

 

To the OP: Whatever the shell might cost you in China, I dont think £30k is going to come close to what it will cost you to buy and import the shell, store it for a few years, and fit it out. Nor does it seem to make sense as an investment or for retirement, (in 30+ years or so?).

[Welshy]

10 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Whatever the shell might cost you in China, I dont think £30k is going to come close to what it will cost you to buy and import the shell, store it for a few years, and fit it out. Nor does it seem to make sense as an investment or for retirement, (in 30+ years or so?).

 

Without giving the company a construction plan they couldn't give me an exact estimate, but they quoted around 50k material cost and another 15k for labour.  Bearing in mind this is in Chinese yuan, they do not convert into pounds or dollars.  50k Chinese yuan is like 50k English pounds here.  - A bottle of water is a quid in the UK, a bottle of water is a yuan in China. 

 

Again, Solar panels are around 250 yuan, back in the UK, around 250 quid.  

 

Materials and labour here is cheap, but if you are Chinese it isn't.  It's hard to explain fully without sounding like a spoiled foreigner.  

Edited September 18, 2019 by Welshy

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Welshy said:

 

Without giving the company a construction plan they couldn't give me an exact estimate, but they quoted around 50k material cost and another 15k for labour.  Bearing in mind this is in Chinese yuan, they do not convert into pounds or dollars.  50k Chinese yuan is like 50k english pounds here.  - A bottle of water is a quid, a bottle of water is a yuan. 

 

Again, Solar panels are around 250 yuan, back in the UK, around 250 quid.  

 

Materials and labour here is cheap, but if you are Chinese it isn't.  It's hard to explain fully without sounding like a spoiled foreigner.  

so about £7K

[Welshy]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

so about £7K

If you convert it, then yes. However here it is its own self propelled economy not influenced by western markets.  British metal is expensive because the rest of the world is expensive.  

 

This is off topic, the finance side of things is taken care of, the three major questions - one already answered in regards to aluminum. The other two regarding construction plans and a boat yard/garage willing to store a shell and accept shipments of materials. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Welshy

[Boater Sam]

A farm barn may be your best storage option, farmers are always looking for diversification,  storage and working space is a low investment for them with no hassle.

[David Mack]

I've no doubt your chinese boatbuilder can build a steel shell of the appropriate basic dimensions, decent standard welds, RCD compliant etc. But if  they have never built a narrow boat before, then you are likely to end up with a clumsy inelegant boat, with various niggles. Whereas if you buy from an established UK boatbuilder, these sorts of details will have been sorted out in previous production, and you are will end up with a better boat overall.

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, Welshy said:

 

Without giving the company a construction plan they couldn't give me an exact estimate, but they quoted around 50k material cost and another 15k for labour.  Bearing in mind this is in Chinese yuan, they do not convert into pounds or dollars.  50k Chinese yuan is like 50k English pounds here.  - A bottle of water is a quid in the UK, a bottle of water is a yuan in China. 

 

Again, Solar panels are around 250 yuan, back in the UK, around 250 quid.  

 

Materials and labour here is cheap, but if you are Chinese it isn't.  It's hard to explain fully without sounding like a spoiled foreigner.  

Do you mean that this shell is going to cost you £65,000 at the factory gate?

[Welshy]

3 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Do you mean that this shell is going to cost you £65,000 at the factory gate?

65k Chinese Yuan.  Not Stirling

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

I've no doubt your chinese boatbuilder can build a steel shell of the appropriate basic dimensions, decent standard welds, RCD compliant etc. But if  they have never built a narrow boat before, then you are likely to end up with a clumsy inelegant boat, with various niggles. Whereas if you buy from an established UK boatbuilder, these sorts of details will have been sorted out in previous production, and you are will end up with a better boat overall.

Understood.  

[Welshy]

6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

A farm barn may be your best storage option, farmers are always looking for diversification,  storage and working space is a low investment for them with no hassle.

Would you have any contact details or a general point in the right direction?

[Athy]

There are quite a few Chinese=built narrowboats on Britain's canals, so someone over there knows how to build them. They were marketed earlier this century by a company called East-West; I didn't think they were trading any more, but they appear to have an active web site. One trick they used (and which may be useful to you when planning shipping) was building them 44 feet long, so that a boat would fit neatly inside a standard container.

 

Here's one which cam eup for sale recently. Sorry the picture isn't great, it was the best one I could find on the broker's site.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Athy

[Welshy]

19 minutes ago, Athy said:

There are quite a few Chinese=built narrowboats on Britain's canals, so someone over there knows how to build them. They were marketed earlier this century by a company called East-West; I didn't think they were trading any more, but they appear to have an active web site. One trick they used (and which may be useful to you when planning shipping) was building them 44 feet long, so that a boat would fit neatly inside a standard container.

 

Here's one which cam eup for sale recently. Sorry the picture isn't great, it was the best one I could find on the broker's site.

Is 44 feet long enough to live aboard permanently? 

[Athy]

That depends on you! I have never lived aboard, but I've seen plenty of people living aboard shorter boats than that Our boat is 45 feet long and has a saloon with solid-fuel stove, a galley, a bathroom and a fixed double bed, which are the basics of what you'd need. It also has a five-foot engine room which you wouldn't need (most modern engines are tucked under the rear deck).

 

Further to my remarks above, I've looked up container sizes on the internet and it seems that 40 feet is the standard, so I'm a bit baffled by the 44-footers - but I do remember an article about East-West in one of the boating mags, where it was stated that these boats were made to fit into a container. EW do, or did, make 39-footers too, so perhaps those are the ones which can be "containerised".

[Welshy]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

That depends on you! I have never lived aboard, but I've seen plenty of people living aboard shorter boats than that Our boat is 45 feet long and has a saloon with solid-fuel stove, a galley, a bathroom and a fixed double bed, which are the basics of what you'd need. It also has a five-foot engine room which you wouldn't need (most modern engines are tucked under the rear deck).

 

Further to my remarks above, I've looked up container sizes on the internet and it seems that 40 feet is the standard, so I'm a bit baffled by the 44-footers - but I do remember an article about East-West in one of the boating mags, where it was stated that these boats were made to fit into a container. EW do, or did, make 39-footers too, so perhaps those are the ones which can be "containerised".

Ah I see! The company I am on contact with has delivery options already in place, it is just a case of supplying them with the building blueprints!

 

But thank you for the information, it has been greatly helpful 

[Athy]

That's what we're here for!

I should add that the East West boats were/ are sent to Britain after being fully fitted out in China (with rather pleasing bamboo-wood interiors, I think); that might be a route worth exploring.

[Welshy]

Just now, Athy said:

That's what we're here for!

I should add that the East West boats were/ are sent to Britain after being fully fitted out in China (with rather pleasing bamboo-wood interiors, I think); that might be a route worth exploring.

I am contacting them now, as I am already in China, it's a quick hop skip and a jump to go visit their manufacturing centre. 

[cuthound]

9 hours ago, David Mack said:

I've no doubt your chinese boatbuilder can build a steel shell of the appropriate basic dimensions, decent standard welds, RCD compliant etc. But if  they have never built a narrow boat before, then you are likely to end up with a clumsy inelegant boat, with various niggles. Whereas if you buy from an established UK boatbuilder, these sorts of details will have been sorted out in previous production, and you are will end up with a better boat overall.

 

This ^^^^.

 

If you look at the photo of the East-West bost posted by Athy there is no tumblehome to the cabin sides. They are completely vertical rather than sloping in towards the roof.

 

As well as looking odd, it brings the top of the cabin sides closer to the arches of low bridges and tunnels, making them prone to damage.

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by cuthound
Sides, not dides

[Welshy]

9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

This ^^^^.

 

If you look at the photo of the East-West bost posted by Athy there is no tumblehome to the cabin dides. They are completely vertical rather than sloping in towards the roof.

 

As well as looking odd, it brings the top of the cabin sides closer to the arches of low bridges and tunnels, making them prone to damage.

 

This is exactly why I am trying to obtain plans here, as you - the experienced people? have first hand knowledge of the problems people have already faced and hopefully during the construction stage, I can have these little knick knacks sorted out. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Welshy

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

That depends on you! I have never lived aboard, but I've seen plenty of people living aboard shorter boats than that Our boat is 45 feet long and has a saloon with solid-fuel stove, a galley, a bathroom and a fixed double bed, which are the basics of what you'd need. It also has a five-foot engine room which you wouldn't need (most modern engines are tucked under the rear deck).

 

Further to my remarks above, I've looked up container sizes on the internet and it seems that 40 feet is the standard, so I'm a bit baffled by the 44-footers - but I do remember an article about East-West in one of the boating mags, where it was stated that these boats were made to fit into a container. EW do, or did, make 39-footers too, so perhaps those are the ones which can be "containerised".

Its a torture bed known as a cross bed though ?