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"outside the box" thinkers only please!!!


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2 minutes ago, Tash and Bex said:

honey, if you want to have coitus with a rubber bath then fill ya boots, I don't have the correct equipment for same.

 

That's a shame, think of the electricity you'd save, never mind the minimum of hot water needed.

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1 hour ago, Tash and Bex said:

I think it is all controlled by an external plc, temp is monitored and if it doesn't rise above the preset point within a given timeframe it switches the immersion on to do so.

Ah - so you have mains now , or, are you looking to power the immersion from the inverter ?

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Ah - so you have mains now , or, are you looking to power the immersion from the inverter ?

Sorry to confuse, no I was describing the method of operation in a solar domestic hot water situation. I continue to not have hook up.

 

substitute the heat source for diesel and it's pretty much the same deal though.

5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

That's a shame, think of the electricity you'd save, never mind the minimum of hot water needed.

yes, but at what cost!

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3 hours ago, Tash and Bex said:

indeed, it tells me of a lack of critical thought. I am perfectly fine with being told my ideas are not going to work, as long as when I respond with "why" the reason they give is "because nobody else has tried it"

 

I might remind you of the title of the thread. 

 

Does any part of that title suggest that I want information on how to plumb a boiler in? 

 

Yet that is all I am getting.

 

Nobody can give me a SINGLE argument for why "my" suggestion WON'T work, except to tell me it won't

for a newbie you sure know how to make friends on this forum, don't you?  do you really expect to receive constructive replies if you throw it all back in people's faces.

 

....  reminder to self - go to ignore mode.  

  • Greenie 1
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22 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

for a newbie you sure know how to make friends on this forum, don't you?  do you really expect to receive constructive replies if you throw it all back in people's faces.

 

....  reminder to self - go to ignore mode.  

I already have done!:clapping:I have found one muff to be enough over the years.

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You could save a second Webasto by putting a small c/f h/x between your existing Webasto and calorifier coil with a switched pump that feeds secondary side water around your bathtime tank (or bath). It would have no effect on the normal operation of heating the calorifier. Without doing the heat transfer calculations, maybe a metre or so of 10 mm copper tube on the secondary inside 15 mm plastic tube carrying the primary, the whole lot insulated and coiled.

 

Martin/

Edited by Onewheeler
Missed out some essential words!
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44 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

You could save a second Webasto by putting a small c/f h/x between your existing Webasto and calorifier coil with a switched pump that feeds secondary side water around your bathtime tank (or bath). It would have no effect on the normal operation of heating the calorifier. Without doing the heat transfer calculations, maybe a metre or so of 10 mm copper tube on the secondary inside 15 mm plastic tube carrying the primary, the whole lot insulated and coiled.

 

Martin/

Coaxial plumbing is difficult to arrange, requires special tee pieces.

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2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Coaxial plumbing is difficult to arrange, requires special tee pieces.

Plenty of c/f heat exchangers are home-made for brewing purposes. Just needs some imagination, and Bex doesn't seem short of that ?

 

e.g. 10 x 15 x 15  tee at each end, with a short length of 15 mm Cu pipe into plastic fittings. Ream out the 10mm end so that the pipe will pass through.

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You would need a significant length of 10mm pipe to achieve sufficient surface area for heat transfer on the rate that a Webasto kicks it out. Nice idea but it requires more design than has been proposed. 10mm pipe is far too small for the required flow rate in the Webasto heat exchanger matrix.

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On 18/09/2019 at 14:38, Tash and Bex said:

a vented tank is at atmospheric pressure, it's vented!

 

In a house situation if its at atmospheric pressure how does the hot water get out?

 

I know, why not have a plastic tank full of cold water that you heat up when you want a bath and then pump it into the bath from the tank, you could have it open so it doesn't pressurise, Maybe you could heat it with a diesel fired heater, something like a Webasto

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when I was a kid we lived in a caravan and I had a bath once a week. 

tin bath on the kitchen floor, water heated in a big preserving pan on the twin gas ring.   

times was 'ard in the 50's.

 

as me mum used to say - "did you no 'arm, lad."  

Edited by Murflynn
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When I was a kid the hot water/central heating thermostat was crudely controlled to switch on/off twice a day, at set times, rather than being customisable over the week with variable temperatures, linked to weather forecasts, and linked to mobile both for geofencing control and manual override.

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9 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

when I was a kid we lived in a caravan and I had a bath once a week. 

tin bath on the kitchen floor, water heated in a big preserving pan on the twin gas ring.   

times was 'ard in the 50's.

Bath; on the floor,  luxury , I was dunked in the sink after the dishes were done

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33 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

You would need a significant length of 10mm pipe to achieve sufficient surface area for heat transfer on the rate that a Webasto kicks it out. Nice idea but it requires more design than has been proposed. 10mm pipe is far too small for the required flow rate in the Webasto heat exchanger matrix.

I said I'd not done the heat transfer calcs. However, a flow rate through the 10 mm secondary of 2 L / min with a delta T of 40 C would take 5.6 kW of heat. Based on experience with a very differently configured heat exchanger I use for cooling wort with about 1 m of 10 mm pipe, the heat transfer rate probably isn't miles adrift.

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4 hours ago, Murflynn said:

for a newbie you sure know how to make friends on this forum, don't you?  do you really expect to receive constructive replies if you throw it all back in people's faces.

 

....  reminder to self - go to ignore mode.  

My attitude is rather reflective, and I choose friends with care, please feel free to ignore me or block me or whatever one does on this site.

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

In a house situation if its at atmospheric pressure how does the hot water get out?

 

I know, why not have a plastic tank full of cold water that you heat up when you want a bath and then pump it into the bath from the tank, you could have it open so it doesn't pressurise, Maybe you could heat it with a diesel fired heater, something like a Webasto

well, that sounds like an excellent plan, and the hot water gets out doe to the head of water betwixt that and the header tank. the header tank usually being in the loft, in this case the "header" will be a simple expansion tank to allow for....expansion. I guess just a skin fitting through the deck head would be more than adequate

 

3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Coaxial plumbing is difficult to arrange, requires special tee pieces.

unless of course you drill a 10mm hole through a couple of push fit copper elbows and solder the 10mm pipe?

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Just now, Tash and Bex said:

well, that sounds like an excellent plan, and the hot water gets out doe to the head of water betwixt that and the header tank. the header tank usually being in the loft, in this case the "header" will be a simple expansion tank to allow for....expansion. I guess just a skin fitting through the deck head would be more than adequate

 

Are so does that 30 foot head appear as pressure in the atmospheric tank? one with a pressure rating of 21 psi.

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7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Are so does that 30 foot head appear as pressure in the atmospheric tank? one with a pressure rating of 21 psi.

I have no idea, if you would like to work it out the calculation is P=Hx0.433 That will give you the pressure in PSI for any given height. incidentally "H" in this case is expressed in feet. 

 

Generally it is not an issue as the HWC is only around 6' lower than the header.

 

gosh I had to pull that one from the back of my mind, i haven't done hydrostatic fluid pressure since school!

 

Hope that helps

Edited by Tash and Bex
clarification
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If, is suggested elsewhere, you use the bath as your heat store, you could insulate the surface with tesselating plastic ducks. Is that sufficiently out of the box?

 

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Its the Poiseuille Equation, I think? That's assuming the flow remains laminar (I think it will......but you can always check by calculating the Reynolds number).

That tells you the delta P for laminar flow in a pipe. I've lost the plot as to what you're trying to calculate!

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