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"outside the box" thinkers only please!!!


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Ok - outside the box

No storage tank needed

Install the bath and insulate under with builder's foam

Make an insulated lid for the bath, hinged on the wall side

Use the bath as your storage tank and circulate the water through a solar-thermal system on the roof

When it reaches 38 degrees - bathtime

Only drawback is whether there is enough height for the hinged lid, although I hear sunken baths are in fashion again.

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46 minutes ago, Tash and Bex said:

He? great observation skills, impressive.

 

Allow me to correct your post. I reject the obvious, practical and efficient methods in favour of a solution, whilst other more "traditional" thinkers just do what everyone else has always done as they believe it is the most practical and efficient way. I believe we call that "invention" and it has come in handy over the years.

 

Some of us are not satisfied with what other people have told us is the "only" way to do it and ask "why?"

 

It's fine not to be one of those people Mike, which is why I mentioned outside the box thinking, I did not want people telling me how other people do it, I have seen that, I am quite aware.

 

But thank you for your negative comments, I am reminded of why I left this site in the first place.

 

To make things crystal clear, I am asking for clarification as to whether what I am suggesting is non-compliant with the BSS, and expanding on this, wondering if anyone else has done similar, I am not asking how to make hot water for a bath.

 

I think Terry Pratchett once said something along the lines of "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there is evidence of any thinking going on inside it."

 

 

May I respectfully suggest that if you want clarification about whether what you are suggesting is compliant with the BSS, why not just ask them? It would certainly cut to the chase, unless , of course, you just enjoy a discussion for discussions sake because you certainly seem to know your own mind and have an answer for most other suggestions.:cheers:

 

Howard

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6 minutes ago, smiler said:

Ok - outside the box

No storage tank needed

Install the bath and insulate under with builder's foam

Make an insulated lid for the bath, hinged on the wall side

Use the bath as your storage tank and circulate the water through a solar-thermal system on the roof

When it reaches 38 degrees - bathtime

Only drawback is whether there is enough height for the hinged lid, although I hear sunken baths are in fashion again.

a similar idea was mooted several pages ago, I considered the idea of similar except using a webasto to provide the heat, fill the bath with cold and switch the heater on, hey presto it circulates water until the desired temp is reached. I could write a little app and do it remotely, would be fun.

I think your idea does have merit however, maybe a bit of insulated pool cover may be more sensible than a lid

 

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2 minutes ago, howardang said:

May I respectfully suggest that if you want clarification about whether what you are suggesting is compliant with the BSS, why not just ask them? It would certainly cut to the chase, unless , of course, you just enjoy a discussion for discussions sake because you certainly seem to know your own mind and have an answer for most other suggestions.:cheers:

 

Howard

Howard, I have only had one suggestion as yet, it was discussed. 

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25 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Oops, forgot the smilie!! :)

 

 

 

Mike, 

 

I thank you for your off topic "contribution" to this thread, I believe you have contributed all you are able.

If there is ever a time I need advice on how to suck eggs, I will be sure to ask you again, meanwhile I will stick with my curiosity rather than blind belief.

 

I wish you well.

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1 minute ago, Tash and Bex said:

Mike, 

 

I thank you for your off topic "contribution" to this thread, I believe you have contributed all you are able.

If there is ever a time I need advice on how to suck eggs, I will be sure to ask you again, meanwhile I will stick with my curiosity rather than blind belief.

 

I wish you well.

Now I remember why I have MtB on ignore permanently!:offtopic::clapping:

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2 minutes ago, howardang said:

That may tell you something!

 

Howard

indeed, it tells me of a lack of critical thought. I am perfectly fine with being told my ideas are not going to work, as long as when I respond with "why" the reason they give is "because nobody else has tried it"

 

I might remind you of the title of the thread. 

 

Does any part of that title suggest that I want information on how to plumb a boiler in? 

 

Yet that is all I am getting.

 

Nobody can give me a SINGLE argument for why "my" suggestion WON'T work, except to tell me it won't

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I think the main reason hot water systems are designed to raise the temperature ~60degC or above, then its later mixed with cold water, is to counteract microbial growth which can occur (and is the pathway for legionaires disease). However I'm not an expert on it and don't know all the details. Once you are talking about hot water, possibly under some pressure, then it determines the material/shape of any hot water storage vessel(s).

 

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18 hours ago, Tash and Bex said:

yes, in a pressurised system cylinders have a much better resistance to splitting and deforming, but I would contest your supposition that water is more often stored in cylinders as I live on a rather long stretch of canal which seems to be rather reasonable at storing water, domestic supply tank is frankly some kind of crazy polygon and my fish tank is a cube.

 

I think the "good reason" you allude to is that it's much much cheaper to make cylindrical pressure vessels than any other shape. 

Just for clarity my post was a quote from stegra's link. I think www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk simply assumed the water would be heated to >60degC, hence the tank shapes they prefer to offer.

2 minutes ago, Tash and Bex said:

Does anyone know what happened to Gibbo, he would have at least understood the question!?

He voluntarily left the forum and gave up narrowboating.

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Just now, Paul C said:

I think the main reason hot water systems are designed to raise the temperature ~60degC or above, then its later mixed with cold water, is to counteract microbial growth which can occur (and is the pathway for legionaires disease). However I'm not an expert on it and don't know all the details. Once you are talking about hot water, possibly under some pressure, then it determines the material/shape of any hot water storage vessel(s).

 

indeedy, the common solution to that in home based thermal hot water systems is to automatically raise the temp above a level (i think 65c) on a weekly basis, this thermally disinfects the tank, so I would need to check with the manufacturer that it can handle that type of temperature in the short term. however car header tanks are made of at least a similar plastic, so it may be possible to use one of the cheaper tanks rather than having a stainless one made.

 

In terms of pressure, there won't be any, there will be expansion room using a little tank which can be vented outside if it proves to cause condensation issues

 

3 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Just for clarity my post was a quote from stegra's link. I think www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk simply assumed the water would be heated to >60degC, hence the tank shapes they prefer to offer.

He voluntarily left the forum and gave up narrowboating.

shame, he was an interesting bloke. Without him I wouldn't have included some of my "crazy" ideas on my boat....most of which I might add are still working perfectly after ten years, and he would have definitely loved my "project tropical fish" I mean, who does put a trop tank on a nb!!

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Agreed, with the right type of plastic it should be entirely possible. And with suitable bracing, the tendency to balloon will be mitigated if its too thin to retain its own shape. Loads of components in engines are now made of plastic - you've probably heard of plastic inlet manifold etc. I believe some cars now also have plastic sump.

3 minutes ago, Tash and Bex said:

 raise the temp above a level (i think 65c) on a weekly basis, this thermally disinfects the tank

It will be a ramp function of temperature and time. Not massively dissimilar to pasteurisation. 

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6 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Agreed, with the right type of plastic it should be entirely possible. And with suitable bracing, the tendency to balloon will be mitigated if its too thin to retain its own shape. Loads of components in engines are now made of plastic - you've probably heard of plastic inlet manifold etc. I believe some cars now also have plastic sump.

It will be a ramp function of temperature and time. Not massively dissimilar to pasteurisation. 

I think most modern cars have a plastic inlet manifold now, I've not heard of the sump yet, I'll ask my partner, she kinda knows about these things, she's a development engineer for MIRA currently working on something she's not even allowed to tell me about save it is for a british sports car manufacturer favoured by 007!

 

I think it is all controlled by an external plc, temp is monitored and if it doesn't rise above the preset point within a given timeframe it switches the immersion on to do so. A little Raspberry Pi and a couple of piggy backed I/O and monitoring boards should make that easy enough.

 

I then could stick the whole lot on the boats 4g network and add a bit of programming so I can see how hot the tank is from the thermal, and if need be stick the heater on i can do that from my phone.

 

my boat already texts me if its on fire, or sinking, or has been moved, and I can tell her to switch heating on etc (I'd considered even getting her to light the stove using an electric match, but I've not done that yet!)

Edited by Tash and Bex
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16 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Just for clarity my post was a quote from stegra's link. I think www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk simply assumed the water would be heated to >60degC, hence the tank shapes they prefer to offer.

He voluntarily left the forum and gave up narrowboating.

And rocked up on Thunderboat.

Phil

14 minutes ago, Tash and Bex said:

indeedy, the common solution to that in home based thermal hot water systems is to automatically raise the temp above a level (i think 65c) on a weekly basis, this thermally disinfects the tank, so I would need to check with the manufacturer that it can handle that type of temperature in the short term. however car header tanks are made of at least a similar plastic, so it may be possible to use one of the cheaper tanks rather than having a stainless one made.

 

In terms of pressure, there won't be any, there will be expansion room using a little tank which can be vented outside if it proves to cause condensation issues

 

shame, he was an interesting bloke. Without him I wouldn't have included some of my "crazy" ideas on my boat....most of which I might add are still working perfectly after ten years, and he would have definitely loved my "project tropical fish" I mean, who does put a trop tank on a nb!!

More trops than you can I imagine. 

Phil

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The amount of hot water needed for this bath depends on the displacement of the bather. The bigger and fatter the person is less hot water would be needed, not only that but the fatter  person will impart more body heat to the already hot water and keep it hotter for longer and increase the time spent in the bath.  Skinny folk would need more hot water depending of course on how skinny they are.  A solution for the storage of hot bath water could be to buy up a couple of hundred 1pt Thermos flasks and spend happy time filling them with hot water from a kettle ready for the baths.  Again how many you need to buy and fill depends on your body displacement. If you happen to weigh about 30 stone and have a standard sized bath then not much hot water would be needed at all, in fact probably just a few Thermos flasks full.  Actually a person of that gross displacement would quite quickly heat a bath full of cold water by body heat alone.  Hope this helps.  :giggles:

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1 minute ago, bizzard said:

The amount of hot water needed for this bath depends on the displacement of the bather. The bigger and fatter the person is less hot water would be needed, not only that but the fatter  person will impart more body heat to the already hot water and keep it hotter for longer and increase the time spent in the bath.  Skinny folk would need more hot water depending of course on how skinny they are.  A solution for the storage of hot bath water could be to buy up a couple of hundred 1pt Thermos flasks and spend happy time filling them with hot water from a kettle ready for the baths.  Again how many you need to buy and fill depends on your body displacement. If you happen to weigh about 30 stone and have a standard sized bath then not much hot water would be needed at all, in fact probably just a few Thermos flasks full.  Actually a person of that gross displacement would quite quickly heat a bath full of cold water by body heat alone.  Hope this helps.  :giggles:

I suspect it helps exactly as much as you think it will, though it is at least on topic.

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1 minute ago, Tash and Bex said:

I suspect it helps exactly as much as you think it will, though it is at least on topic.

For the minimum amount of hot water needed, Ideally choose the correct size of bath for you, that you fit in quite tightly but comfortably. 

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1 minute ago, Tash and Bex said:

lol, I'd rather prefer it to fit two in....on occasion!

 

Ah. You will need a special fully adjustable bath, made of rubber with lots of little mini winches all around it to alter the size. The rubber expandable bath in its natural unexpanded state would accomodate one person, and winched to stretch it outwards to accomdate two persons, or even more if good quality rubber is used.  One of these rubber baths might be found on Gumtree or Rubber tree quite cheaply.

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12 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Ah. You will need a special fully adjustable bath, made of rubber with lots of little mini winches all around it to alter the size. The rubber expandable bath in its natural unexpanded state would accomodate one person, and winched to stretch it outwards to accomdate two persons, or even more if good quality rubber is used.  One of these rubber baths might be found on Gumtree or Rubber tree quite cheaply.

indeed, or I could simply design it to fill with hot water?

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The bath or rubber bath could even be designed to drain through the plug hole up hill without a pump!, by just positioning the plug hole roughly in the middle but precisely beneath your bottom. By fumbling under to pull out the plug and then  bumping your bottom up and down upon the outlet hole should cause the water to be forced uphill and out overboard. Its called the ''Bum pump'' method, which is very good excersize too. :closedeyes:

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2 minutes ago, bizzard said:

The bath or rubber bath could even be designed to drain through the plug hole up hill without a pump!, by just positioning the plug hole roughly in the middle but precisely beneath your bottom. By fumbling under to pull out the plug and then  bumping your bottom up and down upon the outlet hole should cause the water to be forced uphill and out overboard. Its called the ''Bum pump'' method, which is very good excersize too. :closedeyes:

honey, if you want to have coitus with a rubber bath then fill ya boots, I don't have the correct equipment for same.

 

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