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Anode Myths part1.


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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think he is only here to ramp the website he links to. The confusing and jargon-heavy writing style is the same.

If you fight your way through his first post in this thread did you actually find any ‘myths’?  I didn’t. 

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8 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Oh good.

 

Can you explain where I can get enough dry air from to wrap around my boat please?

 

I'm in the UK if it helps ... and my superstructure rusts too. 

 

I understand they have vehicle graveyards/storage compounds in Arizona because the air is dry enough to store steel items long term without rusting, but that doesn't really help me in Lancashire.

 

I was wondering that, even in Death Valley the relative humidity varies from 10%-55%, depending on time of day and season.

 

 

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

If you fight your way through his first post in this thread did you actually find any ‘myths’?  I didn’t. 

 

I found some mythstakes! ?

Edited by cuthound
To add spaces between merged posts
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4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

If you fight your way through his first post in this thread did you actually find any ‘myths’?  I didn’t. 

 

Nope. 

 

See Post 36!

 

It is a subject I simply don't understand. When this happens and later I slowly build an understanding from basic principles, it often turns out the sources I was reading which I originally failed to understand, were actually poorly or inaccurately written, if you see what I mean. When I return to those less-than-helpful sources and read them again armed with newly acquired foundation knowledge, I find I can see their inaccuracies and sloppiness. I think this might be happening here with the OP.

 

 

 

The OP's dismissal of dimensional analysis as pedantry supports my suspicions here.

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Having battered my way through most of this lot, i still have no idea as to whether anodes are supposed to work or not.  Although, as my engine doesn't at the moment anyway, I don't suppose it matters much. Not to me, anyway.  And I reckon my brand new bottom will last the rest of my boating life anyway, with or without the damn things.

The only way to find out if your anodes are working, is to measure in the water, the change in the potentials of the materials connected to them.

 

Go have a look at www.galvatest.eu

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2 minutes ago, Chris and PJ said:

The only way to find out if your anodes are working, is to measure in the water, the change in the potentials of the materials connected to them.

 

Go have a look at www.galvatest.eu

 

Your site, presumably, given how many times you link to it.

 

Which page on the site are you suggesting explains how to tell if your anodes are 'working'? 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Chris and PJ said:

The only way to find out if your anodes are working, is to measure in the water, the change in the potentials of the materials connected to them.

 

Go have a look at removed spam link

Considering how many times you've linked to this website and how few times (none in fact) you've actually made reference to narrowboats specifically as a topic of interest to you I can't help but think you are only here to up you SEO and promote your business - which is really not cricket. 

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10 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Oh good.

 

Can you explain where I can get enough dry air from to wrap around my boat please?

 

I'm in the UK if it helps ... and my superstructure rusts too. 

 

I understand they have vehicle graveyards/storage compounds in Arizona because the air is dry enough to store steel items long term without rusting, but that doesn't really help me in Lancashire.

Unfortunately in terms of galvanic corrosion there is no naturally occurring dry air on this planet.

The only man made metals that will survive to, show that man ever existed. will be on the moon and voyager spacecraft

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Just had my boat out of the water for the first time since June 2015. All looked well with the hull and prop, not much corrosion, anodes a bit used up, but lots more than 50% remaining.

 

Cost of test, over and above the lift and storage for blacking - £0.00

 

If I owned an oil rig, or something similar, that was not going to come out of the water for the whole of its' life, perhaps some kind of test thing might be appropriate, but creating a problem, where there hasn't been one previously, is a bit irritating. 

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5 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Just had my boat out of the water for the first time since June 2015. All looked well with the hull and prop, not much corrosion, anodes a bit used up, but lots more than 50% remaining.

 

Cost of test, over and above the lift and storage for blacking - £0.00

 

If I owned an oil rig, or something similar, that was not going to come out of the water for the whole of its' life, perhaps some kind of test thing might be appropriate, but creating a problem, where there hasn't been one previously, is a bit irritating. 

I completely agree with you.

The same is right for the majority. I don't know

 Until he time you inspect your hull and you have a huge corrosion cost! Would you be even more irritated?

I just don't believe in luck

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Your site, presumably, given how many times you link to it.

 

Which page on the site are you suggesting explains how to tell if your anodes are 'working'? 

 

 

 

The whole gavatest.eu site explains it quite well with pictures but their costs of equipment are way too high. There are several UK manufactures of Half Cells

 

I want a narrowboat to buy for retirement.

I look at a bunch of hulls (the biggest single reason not to buy a boat is because its heavily corroded)

Seems the biggest reason to sell a boat is that the corrosion its got is soon to cost a lot of money

Surveyors would prefer not to take measurements in case they became accountable 

Asking why they corrode I find no-one in this industry(so far) who fully understands why.

 

I understand the why and the remedies.

I try to explain the science in writing --- nothing but abuse is sent back

I suggest go look at a site that explains it in pretty pictures. More abuse lol

Obviously you can all afford the costs of corrosion.

Take a chance when you connect to shore-power

Take an even bigger chance when you moor in a marina. For sure the marina operators don't want corrosion measurements taken In case they become accountable!

 

From private messages I get. There are a few who cant afford to see their investment devalue.

Those who are interested I am happy, (if I can) to help at no cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chris and PJ said:

The whole gavatest.eu site explains it quite well with pictures

Here's a quick hypothetical question - if you were no longer allowed to keep promoting this website that you are so fond of would you still want to post on this site? 

 

Here is a non-hypothetical - is that your website/company, or are you linked to it or any body who is linked to it in any way at all, or do you work for them in any capacity? Because if you are/do I think you should be open and honest about it. 

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2 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Here's a quick hypothetical question - if you were no longer allowed to keep promoting this website that you are so fond of would you still want to post on this site? 

 

Here is a non-hypothetical - is that your website/company, or are you linked to it or any body who is linked to it in any way at all, or do you work for them in any capacity? Because if you are/do I think you should be open and honest about it. 

Absolutely no connection  and as Brexit supporter would not promote a French site.

Just few sites get it right  and I thought this one was easier reading and get it mostly right.

Obviously I am wrong to try to help/ inform and understand that taking these kind of measurements will be opposed by those who would become accountable.

I have however had Silvion the foremost British manufacturer of Half-Cells make an electrode to my specification so that it will specifically work in canal water. and at a much lower cost because it does not need to function in 500 M sea water. I have no interest in selling anything or does retirement mean something else nowadays.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Athy said:

Thanks - you have clarified a point about which some members were wondering.

Quite honestly this is about the most unfriendly Forum I have ever seen.

As such members with something to add are reluctant to speak because of the un-moderated heckling from the too clever.

 

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1 minute ago, Chris and PJ said:

Quite honestly this is about the most unfriendly Forum I have ever seen.

As such members with something to add are reluctant to speak because of the un-moderated heckling from the too clever.

 

Thank you for your honesty. I can't see how several members' willingness to discuss your topic with you is "unfriendly".

 

You are, however, mistaken about the "un-moderated" bit, as you will have noticed a couple of posts ago

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42 minutes ago, Chris and PJ said:

I have however had Silvion the foremost British manufacturer of Half-Cells make an electrode to my specification so that it will specifically work in canal water. and at a much lower cost because it does not need to function in 500 M sea water. I have no interest in selling anything or does retirement mean something else nowadays.

 

 A great example of your unexplained jargon which chuffs people off here.

 

You're no help at all. Just telling people to read your pet website in response to reasonable questions just doesn't cut it. You've not exploded any 'anode myths' for me, in case you were wondering. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Take a step back and put yourself in the shoes of someone with the most common experiences amongst canal boaters. Imagine you;-

 

- are not technically minded

- have a boat with four anodes that erode slowly and get replaced every few years

- lift your boat out of the water every couple of years, observe very little change and re-apply the blacking

- have never had to spend a large some of money on a problem with your hull <snip>

 

 

What an EXCELLENT post. You describe me to a tee. Except for the first bit. I am fairly technical but the OP's writings explain nothing. They just make unsupported assertions.

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16 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I am a technically minded person and have spent a huge amount of my career mediating between engineers and non-engineers. The truth is that even the best of technical engineers can be utterly rubbish at communicating important information to non-technical people.

 

 

 

 

Never a truer word spoken.

 

Communication is a skill and very few people really have it, the more time spent with people with similar interests the more comfortable you become with the specialised lingo and concepts.

 

This can often make explaining what appears to be simple concepts to onself difficult to those not in the know

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5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Take a step back and put yourself in the shoes of someone with the most common experiences amongst canal boaters. Imagine you;-

 

- are not technically minded

- have a boat with four anodes that erode slowly and get replaced every few years

- lift your boat out of the water every couple of years, observe very little change and re-apply the blacking

- have never had to spend a large some of money on a problem with your hull

 

Thats the sort of person you need to communicate with. Your first post was miles off the mark in terms of pitching to the audience you have here.

 

If you really want to help start by explaining to people the following in your own words without reference to external sources;-

 

- what is the risk you believe exists (be realistic about what’s likely to happen rather than what could theoretically happen)

- who is particularly at risk (any boat, a steel hulled boat, a steel hulled boat with 12v dc only, a boat on 240v shore supply)

- explain the function of an anode in plain English (and acknowledge it’s place in the hierarchy of things that protect the hull)

 

I am a technically minded person and have spent a huge amount of my career mediating between engineers and non-engineers. The truth is that even the best of technical engineers can be utterly rubbish at communicating important information to non-technical people.

 

Just accept there are folk on the forum who are informed to a greater or lesser degree and have too much time on their hands. That’s part of the demographic here. They will question things but they’re not against you. Remember it’s you that wants to get a message across not them who are asking to receive it.

 

JP

 

 

Thank you

This is the most helpful reply I have received

Trouble is as soon a you say something simple like:

`An anode is just a power supply` your faced with a whole lot of derision.

 

I will rethink

And most probably forget about it as I have better things to do with my life 

 

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46 minutes ago, Chris and PJ said:

I will rethink

And most probably forget about it as I have better things to do with my life 

Your choice, of course, but I think if everyone here thought they had better things to do with their lives, we'd all be worse off. What goes around, comes around - there'll be a time when you reap what you sow here, and hopefully that'll be in the form of helpful knowledge or experience from others who were grateful for your input. As Capt Pegg expresses well above, you have a helluva broad audience here... and sometimes its a tough crowd!

 

Stick with it eh; you clearly have knowledge to impart. :)

 

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1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Your choice, of course, but I think if everyone here thought they had better things to do with their lives, we'd all be worse off. What goes around, comes around - there'll be a time when you reap what you sow here, and hopefully that'll be in the form of helpful knowledge or experience from others who were grateful for your input. As Capt Pegg expresses well above, you have a helluva broad audience here... and sometimes its a tough crowd!

 

Stick with it eh; you clearly have knowledge to impart. :)

 

Then tell me what is considered to be the most common corrosion cause steel hulls.

 

1        Is it connection to shore power?

2        Is it something faulty electrical on board?

3        The boat next door?

4        Anodes not working / insufficient?

5        Stray currents

or something else

 

I will then tell you how I would test for it in simple steps if it was my boat.

 

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3 hours ago, Chris and PJ said:

And most probably forget about it as I have better things to do with my life 

Often a good idea here... those that you can help have been helped, and may not even have responded. those that you cant help, or dont want your help, or dont think you have helped anyone, have made their position clear.

 

Job Done :)

 

Dont leave the forums though. It's a very helpful place when you have something you need help with. Usually you get some very good and quick answers, sometimes you also get some not so good answers. 

 

The other week I bought a fan that runs off a 5V USB source, and it has a remote control. I thought it was amazing and said so here, (without anybody asking for the info). Most replies suggested I was stupid to pay so much for my fan, and/or identified other fans that I should have bought which were much less money.

 

Nevertheless, I remain delighted with my fan, think it's worth every penny I paid for it, and am glad I didnt buy either the famous brand, or a cheap one.

 

I hope someone who didnt respond saw my post and found it helpful either now, or for the future :)

Edited by Richard10002
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