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Impact of White diesel cost per month


Mick in Bangkok

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As I am not budgeting to return to UK and start continues cruising next year for retirement can anyone clarify the impact of changing from red to white diesel.

 

My prior cost estimate was “Red diesel fuel x GBP0.9 per L x 1L per hr. x 100hrs per month” (100hr x GBP0.9) = GBP90 per month.

 

Any advice from experienced boaters appreciated.

 

 

Cheers Mick

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Supermarket prices for DERV are around £1.39 I think.  The duty is approx 50p per litre, so whatever base price for red you are looking at expect at lest that more per litre. , but who know what will happen.

 

As to 100 hours per month that is a lot even if you are cruising extensively.

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25 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Supermarket prices for DERV are around £1.39

Around our way Supermarket prices are £1.28-£1.30 and small independents around £1.33 / litre

 

In our marina 60/40 price of red diesel is £1.26/litre so little difference (apart from the inconvenience of fetching and carrying Jerry cans)

 

Obviously once red is no longer available in marinas the price will increase by the additional 'duty'

'Domestic' (no duty) is currently 96p/litre so adding 50p duty would bring it to around £1.46 / litre

 

@Mick in Bangkok I think your 1 litre an hour is low - if you are looking at a NB I'd suggest that 1.5 litres would be closer.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Around our way Supermarket prices are £1.28-£1.30 and small independents around £1.33 / litre

 

In our marina 60/40 price of red diesel is £1.26/litre so little difference (apart from the inconvenience of fetching and carrying Jerry cans)

 

Obviously once red is no longer available in marinas the price will increase by the additional 'duty'

'Domestic' (no duty) is currently 96p/litre so adding 50p duty would bring it to around £1.46 / litre

 

@Mick in Bangkok I think your 1 litre an hour is low - if you are looking at a NB I'd suggest that 1.5 litres would be closer.

Its not just the duty - the VAT is also raised from 5% to 20‰ - so an extra 15% on the old base price (14.4p -'round' to 15p), the extra duty of 50p, and the VAT on that - 10p; a total rise of 75p/l - so more like £1.70/l.  This is why people are getting worried about the continuing viability of canalside diesel supplies...

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13 minutes ago, bizzard said:

And how are CBer's ''Continuous Boozers'' going to afford the diesel as well to continuous cruise the stipulated distance required.

'It's not red diesel officer, it's rosé wine (hic), that's why I'm on a restricted licence....'

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

Recent events in Saudi Arabia might suggest that the price of all refined fuels will soon increase sharply.

You are right their Ian, from the Saudi view I would always have a shortfall of oil to keep the price high, its a no brainer, they get the same money for less production costs!

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2 hours ago, DaveP said:

Its not just the duty - the VAT is also raised from 5% to 20‰ - so an extra 15% on the old base price (14.4p -'round' to 15p), the extra duty of 50p, and the VAT on that - 10p; a total rise of 75p/l - so more like £1.70/l.  This is why people are getting worried about the continuing viability of canalside diesel supplies...

Yes you are of course correct about the VAT - although your methodology is incorrect.

 

There is already a 'reduced' duty on domestic usage of  10.7p per litre

 

So on 'domestic fuel' at £0.96p the actual 'base cost' is less the 5% VAT and the £0.107p

ie  £0.96 - VAT = £0.914p, less the duty, it becomes  80.7p / litre.

 

No add back in the 'full duty' at 57.95p gives £1.39

Add back in the VAT (@20%) gives a price of £1.67 / litres

 

 

 

 

 

The result is the similar to your suggestion (£1.70)but by a different route.

 

Is it really worth getting the car out, driving X miles to a petrol-station (using x litres of petrol / diesel) to fill a couple or three Jerry-Cans to save a 'couple of quid' ?

 

Our marina rates are :

 

Domestic £0.96 / litre

60/40 £1.26 / litre

Propulsion £1.431 / litre

 

If you were to travel (say) 20 hours per week it would only be the cost of 30 litres (20 hours @ 1.5 litres per hour), at an additional  24p / litre (or £7 per week - hardly a deal breaker, in the greater scheme of boating costs).

 

Yes - your 'domestic' usage will be much more expensive than previously - but in all honesty (unless you have a diesel stove) how much diesel is actually used for domestic purposes ?

 

If you are travelling 3 or 4 hours every day then your batteries should be charged, if you are not travelling 3 or 4 hours every day then you will be paying for less 'propulsion' diesel.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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5 hours ago, john6767 said:

Supermarket prices for DERV are around £1.39 I think.  The duty is approx 50p per litre, so whatever base price for red you are looking at expect at lest that more per litre. , but who know what will happen.

 

As to 100 hours per month that is a lot even if you are cruising extensively.

4 hours per day

 

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Around our way Supermarket prices are £1.28-£1.30 and small independents around £1.33 / litre

 

In our marina 60/40 price of red diesel is £1.26/litre so little difference (apart from the inconvenience of fetching and carrying Jerry cans)

 

Obviously once red is no longer available in marinas the price will increase by the additional 'duty'

'Domestic' (no duty) is currently 96p/litre so adding 50p duty would bring it to around £1.46 / litre

 

@Mick in Bangkok I think your 1 litre an hour is low - if you are looking at a NB I'd suggest that 1.5 litres would be closer.

96p per litre sounds very expensive, that's Thames pricing. I would have though atxanal pricing there would not be that much difference in the road price and the full propulsion price, but the real issue will be how many canal side outlets stop selling deisel.

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Interesting to note that Sea-Going boats can use 'better diesel' (no Bio & higher Sulpher) than inland waterways vessels.

 

The red diesel you buy could be any one of the fuels listed:

 

Type of Fuel

Often 
referred to as

Bio content

Available to vessels which go to sea

Available to vessels which remain in categorised waters

ISO 8217:2010
 
This is the specified standard for marine fuels which meets certain other stringent international requirements; it permits a maximum limit of 1,000 mg/kg sulphur and prohibits the use of Biodiesel
 
Marine diesel or Red diesel
 
None permitted
 
Yes No - they may only use low sulphur fuel
The UK Regulations that transpose the EU Fuel Quality Directive apply to the supply of fuel and do not apply to craft that normally, 'operate at sea'; the UK regulations allow marinas and other fuel retailers in tidal category C and D waters to stock and sell ISO 8217 Category DMA gas oil to recreational craft that normally operate at sea. 
BS EN 2869:2010 Class A2
 
Gas oil for non-road use, including recreational craft that do not normally operate at sea and inland waterways vessels. This standard now specifies a maximum limit of 10 mg/kg sulphur but also permits the addition of up to 7% Biodiesel by volume (without it having to be labelled as such).
 
Gas oil or Red diesel or Low sulphur diesel
 
Up to 7% is permitted but not mandatory
 
Yes Yes
It is perfectly lawful for suppliers to provide this without the addition of Biodiesel for Non Road use and a number of suppliers have stated that they will make sulphur-free biodiesel-free gas oil available
BS EN
590
Low sulphur diesel which contains up to 7% FAME Biodiesel has to be added as part of the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation Order. Road Diesel Minimum of 4.25% for 2011/2012 is mandatory.  This will rise to 4.7% when the RED is implemented  
Edited by Alan de Enfield
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45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Interesting to note that Sea-Going boats can use 'better diesel' (no Bio) that inland waterways vessels.

 

The red diesel you buy could be any one of the fuels listed:

 

Type of Fuel

Often 
referred to as

Bio content

Available to vessels which go to sea

Available to vessels which remain in categorised waters

ISO 8217:2010
 
This is the specified standard for marine fuels which meets certain other stringent international requirements; it permits a maximum limit of 1,000 mg/kg sulphur and prohibits the use of Biodiesel
 
Marine diesel or Red diesel
 
None permitted
 
Yes No - they may only use low sulphur fuel
The UK Regulations that transpose the EU Fuel Quality Directive apply to the supply of fuel and do not apply to craft that normally, 'operate at sea'; the UK regulations allow marinas and other fuel retailers in tidal category C and D waters to stock and sell ISO 8217 Category DMA gas oil to recreational craft that normally operate at sea. 
BS EN 2869:2010 Class A2
 
Gas oil for non-road use, including recreational craft that do not normally operate at sea and inland waterways vessels. This standard now specifies a maximum limit of 10 mg/kg sulphur but also permits the addition of up to 7% Biodiesel by volume (without it having to be labelled as such).
 
Gas oil or Red diesel or Low sulphur diesel
 
Up to 7% is permitted but not mandatory
 
Yes Yes
It is perfectly lawful for suppliers to provide this without the addition of Biodiesel for Non Road use and a number of suppliers have stated that they will make sulphur-free biodiesel-free gas oil available
BS EN
590
Low sulphur diesel which contains up to 7% FAME Biodiesel has to be added as part of the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation Order. Road Diesel Minimum of 4.25% for 2011/2012 is mandatory.  This will rise to 4.7% when the RED is implemented  

Your post cannot be read on my mobile view .. it looks abit like something from the matrix ...  

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2 hours ago, peterboat said:

You are right their Ian, from the Saudi view I would always have a shortfall of oil to keep the price high, its a no brainer, they get the same money for less production costs!

Oh, that's a good idea. Maybe someone could organize petroleum exporting countries to cooperate and set pricing? Perhaps it could be called OPEC or something? :D

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4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I think my Isuzu 55 consumes anything between 1.5 - 4.5 l/h depending on how hard I'm pushing it. On canals, yes only 1.5 l/h.

 

 Well my Ford's (6-cylinder each) use 10 (5 each) litres per hour at 5kts and about 60 litres Hour per hour at WoT

 

I think the graph is a bit optimistic up to around about 1200 / 1300 rpm

 

 

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Edited by Alan de Enfield
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