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Kelbs

Struggling to get the Webasto Top C to start up.

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Hello lovely boaters, I've been fitting a Webasto Top C unit on my boat and today was the day it was supposed to all come together and work. As I expected it did not happen. After connecting up to the battery bank the unit would make some noise, as if it was sucking air through, I could feel the air coming out of the exhaust, no fumes. Then these diesel pump would start making a clicking noise, which got faster and faster, the unit speeds up and sounds like it's about to kick in and then it just doesn't. I did this 4/5 times hoping that it just needed a few attempts to get the diesel into the unit. Still no joy. Am I missing something obvious? It's a reconditioned unit and came with all the parts needed, anything missing I bought with Spencers recommendation. I'm hoping that I'm just being a Muppet and that I'm forgetting something simple. Please help :) going to post in a few places to gather the greatest amount of boater knowledge. If no one can help then I will look for a webasto engeneer to come and help out. Thank you all x

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What is the voltage at the glowplug when trying to staet?

 

Have you bled the fuel pipe and filter where it connects the the unit, it may just be trying to bleed itself.

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I'm not sure where the glow plug is, I'm assuming it's inside the unit? Nor am I sure where the filter is. Is there a filter built in to the unit as I haven't fitted one myself.

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5 minutes ago, Kelbs said:

I'm not sure where the glow plug is, I'm assuming it's inside the unit? Nor am I sure where the filter is. Is there a filter built in to the unit as I haven't fitted one myself.

I avoid such heaters but I would expect the glow plug to have its terminal poking out of the outer case. I also thought all that type of heater should have a filter in the fuel line to keep the fuel clean and remove any water.

 

If you can't find the glow plug measure the voltage on the positive supply to the unit when its trying to start.

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Is it possible to provide a photo of the pipe run. Mine took a lot of bleeding to start first time after install

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Have you searched the forum for Webasto threads?  There is some good info there.  I hope to have mine running (properly) for the first time tomorrow!

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If there is an air lock in cooling system they run through the start process pump running then shut down so make sure coolant system is free of air

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1 hour ago, chevron said:

If there is an air lock in cooling system they run through the start process pump running then shut down so make sure coolant system is free of air

I think the header tank has a self bleeding valve on it, there is an open nipple next to the filling spout which I have been assuming that it is to let out any air. Will try bleeding the rads tomorrow regardless.

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Do you actually have a copy of the installation instructions? Did you follow them without skipping over/ignoring the difficult bits?

 

There will be a commissioning procedure. Have you followed that to the letter?

 

 

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10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Do you actually have a copy of the installation instructions? Did you follow them without skipping over/ignoring the difficult bits?

 

There will be a commissioning procedure. Have you followed that to the letter?

 

 

I do have an instruction manual and it does talk you through the commissioning procedure, very vaguely. Are you able to give any more advice on what this means. It looks to me to be to do with bleeding any air out of the rads and making sure the heating system is ready to go before turning on?

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1 hour ago, Kelbs said:

I do have an instruction manual and it does talk you through the commissioning procedure, very vaguely. Are you able to give any more advice on what this means. It looks to me to be to do with bleeding any air out of the rads and making sure the heating system is ready to go before turning on?

the two usual problems with non starting and running of these units are low battery voltage and no fuel getting through. Have you loosened the diesel feed pipe union on entry to the unit on start up to see if fuel is there for instance?

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Funny thing is Germany's home market EberWebs don't seem give much trouble at all. I reckon they export to us rejects because they lost the wars. Or they are really old stock left over from the days when we called their goods Jerry built. :closedeyes:

Whats more, if we do pull out of Europe next month the quality of these units dispached to us could wursten even more and the cost of em could rocket like a V2, they already sound like one about to take off.

Edited by bizzard

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If it's anything like my Mikuni (functionally similar unit) you need -

fairly substantial power leads - the glow plug an draw 20 amps +

The remote pump is pretty feeble until it has fuel in it (it won't suck from the supply tank)

 

On mine the glow plug has a rubber boot (the plug is like a miniature car spark plug...). Pull the boot aside and measure the voltage between the lead and the earth while the unit is attempting to start.

 

Report back when you've got it to work - or otherwise.....

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Had very similar issues with installing ours last year - himself is suggesting the following, based on his hours of frustration getting ours going

 

1. make sure the fuel is getting through - disconnect the fuel line at the Webasto, fire it up and make sure you are getting a little spit of diesel every time you hear it tick

 

2. If fuel is getting through, make sure the exhaust isn't flooded - this happened to us. had to disconnect and run it to burn off excess fuel

 

3. Method of reset in the manual says take one connection off and put it back on - this isn't a complete reset. You need to pull 'the other plug' as well - bit like completely restarting a computer

We were given the number of a brilliant engineer who very kindly talked us through getting it going on a Sunday - I'll try to find it

Edited  Jims Mobile marine 07845277058

Edited by Amber34
add phone number

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Thanks all very much for the advice. The problem is definitely that no fuel is coming through the line. 

 

There is plenty of voltage reaching the unit, I tested it earlier. 

 

I have disconnected the fuel line from the webasto unit and put an extra 20L of diesel in the tank, ran the unit 4 times and nothing came out of the fuel pipe. So I think the issue is deffenitly a lack of diesel to the unit. Trying to work out why is my next issue. 

 

I've attached a couple of pictures of the outlet from the diesel tank and the fuel pump. Not sure if anyone can help from these but anything is worth a go at the moment.

 

The webasto is to the right of the pump and the tank to the left.

 

The holes in the diesel tank were from the boat builders and I've assumed there will be piping inside to feed from the diesel tank.

 

Thanks all,

Beau

20190915_172804.jpg

20190915_172436.jpg

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Just a thought, but if the fuel level is fairly low and on the assumption there is a dip tube going down to the fuel, there will be a fair amount of air to pump out before the fuel arrives.  So two questions, did you let the pump run long enough to fully prime ie get rid of the air, and are you certain there is a dip tube?

 

added - if you disconnect the outlet of the fuel pump and run the pump into a container does fuel come out?

Edited by Chewbacka

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8 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Just a thought, but if the fuel level is fairly low and on the assumption there is a dip tube going down to the fuel, there will be a fair amount of air to pump out before the fuel arrives.  So two questions, did you let the pump run long enough to fully prime ie get rid of the air, and are you certain there is a dip tube?

 

added - if you disconnect the outlet of the fuel pump and run the pump into a container does fuel come out?

As above, i'd be tempted to put a bit of clear pipe on the pipe where the inlet to the pump goes and suck until you see fuel coming through

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Loosen the union at the tank if no diesel flows out problem is at tank if diesel flows out try disconnecting pipe at pump should come out there if gravity fed

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1 minute ago, chevron said:

Loosen the union at the tank if no diesel flows out problem is at tank if diesel flows out try disconnecting pipe at pump should come out there if gravity fed

that assumes there is fuel above that level

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Agree cannot tell off pictures but the outlets look high if there’s no diesel when the union is loose and tap open it will never work

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I don't know how much help this is because mine is an Eberspacher (same idea, different system) but we had a lot of trouble firing ours up after servicing it. Inside the unit is a fuel filter and to describe it as small would be an understatement, a few dog hairs would be enough to block it. We tried blowing the fuel back into the fuel tank to clear the obstruction and re-doing the start process again with little success, eventually the only way to clear the problem was to open the unit and clear the very small amount of crap the filter had clogged up with. I don't know how close to to bottom of your fuel tank the intake pipe is, but if there is any crap in the bottom of your fuel tank there is a reasonable chance the unit may have sucked some up. The fact that it is making the right sort of noises (fuel pump clicking) suggests that the power to the unit is probably OK.

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Is that definitely a Webasto dosing pump as google images show them to be of a metal casing type. Is it round the correct way. Is there a filter in it as described above. Webasto normally fit a bowl type though. The OP is not sure there is a pipe in the tank

 

Just had a look at install manual and pump connector goes same side as outlet so pump looks to be correct way round

Edited by Tonka
extra info

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These filter units are usually fitted on Webasto systems. Very common on oil fired systems, also common on some older diesel engines.  Filter element is Crosland 489 and very cheap.  If it has a dip tube in the fuel tank it needs to be shorter than the engines dip tube, so the heater doesn't run the tank low enough so that the boats engine won't go or conks out.

crosf18489.jpg

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9 minutes ago, bizzard said:

These filter units are usually fitted on Webasto systems. Very common on oil fired systems, also common on some older diesel engines.  Filter element is Crosland 489 and very cheap.  If it has a dip tube in the fuel tank it needs to be shorter than the engines dip tube, so the heater doesn't run the tank low enough so that the boats engine won't go or conks out.

crosf18489.jpg

They are well bigger that my little Eberspacher filter, are the two screw on top the air bleed screws? (possible source of problem:unsure:)

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