All the things I have forgotten...

[Guest]

Hello All,

 

This is my first post and I'm contemplating my first boat... with excitement, trepidation and a keen awareness that there will be things I have not thought of at all. If you could help me spot some that would be really super-helpful!

 

The boat will be moored on a permanent mooring with electric, phone, pump out and water facilities all not requiring it to be moved. (I appreciate this is not a great value/fully entering into the spirit option but it is necessary for a fixed location near where I need it to be and should be quite handy in some respects for a new boater - it also has laundry near by so I won't need to fit a washer/drier in to a relatively small space). As far as I know there is also a fuel-delivery boat which visits every so often for gas and so forth.

 

I was thinking of converting the boat in the attached to a live-aboard style. I know it will need (or I will want) a ring main and I have a quote for that. There is some water damage from condensation/leaks around the bottom of the windows. A few beds (berths) will be removed (I do not want too many visitors but will value the space!) so I will be able to fit a little solar fan to at least one or two of the mushroom vents without reducing the ventilation for BSS too much I think - and increasing it in practice. It will also be heated more frequently which should help. I'm contemplating if I should have (super-expensive but possibly worth it?) thermal break double glazing fitted when the windows are fixed. With regard to heating I would really prefer to avoid a solid fuel stove because of the mess and danger (there will be animals and young children aboard at times) so am thinking of adding the least naff electric stove I can find for use with shore power as an addition to the central heating and assuming that I'll mostly be using the boat for trips in better weather. Does this sound sensible? I appreciate that ppl LOVE their burning stoves so will be fine with admitting I don't cope without if that proves to be the case but would prefer to have at least an alternative plan worth trying first!

 

For cooking I may swap the stove which is there for one I already have (it is a land based one but new, so has the right cut-off things, is v small and a conversion kit is available for the gas type) but am unsure what to do about fridge/freezing. Do people who are mostly moored use larger domestic fridge-freezers? Or does one get used to the boat ones?

 

Oh, and do I need a CRT boat license separately if it is moored on one of their permanent moorings or is that included so to speak? I thought I'd read not somewhere but am unsure...

Edited to add: I think I do need a license. Must remember to get one!

 

Many thanks in advance!

Edited September 12, 2019 by TheMenagerieAfloat
Forgot to ask...

[David Mack]

12 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

 

The boat will be moored on a permanent mooring with electric, phone, pump out and water facilities all not requiring it to be moved.

 

Have you secured this mooring yet? Moorings with all these facilities are rare, and usually cost a packet. 

If you don't yet have the mooring, all that follows is idle speculation.

 

12 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

 

Oh, and do I need a CRT boat license separately if it is moored on one of their permanent moorings or is that included so to speak?

 

Yes you need a licence to moor on CRT waters (and in most marinas connected to CRT waters, even if the boat never leaves the marina). The licence is additional to the mooring fee.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Have you secured this mooring yet?

Yes. Or at least, sale/deposit agreed (it is a transferable one, and yes, more of a financial commitment than the boat itself long term really) and discussions with moorings manager about boat swap underway. Am moderately unprepared - but not a fantasist ?

 

Thanks for confirming about the license.

Edited September 12, 2019 by TheMenagerieAfloat

[stegra]

If you have an electric stove for heating you might need to manage your electrical usage carefully. The shoreline will probably have a 16A breaker so if for example you switch on an electric kettle and toaster as well, it might trip. Not such big deal if it trips on the boat but could be a pain if the bollard trips. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by stegra

[Graham Davis]

I suspect that your electricity usage with that type of heater, plus cooking and hot water is going to be over the usual 16amp unit. You need to first confirm with the marina what the power output of the berth is and then do a very careful power audit of what you will be using.
As for the boat, I suspect that it having been an ex-hire boat you are going to find that the insulation fitted is not of the best quality or quantity, plus removing some of the beds may not be as easy or as cheap as you think.  

[dor]

I take it that this is “Charis”.

 As a 15 year old hire boat I would be a bit suspicious of the number of hours, with the hours counter conveniently broken.

And I would be very careful about the mooring. If you are paying a premium to have the mooring transferred, remember that you have absolutely no security of tenure.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I'm contemplating if I should have (super-expensive but possibly worth it?) thermal break double glazing fitted when the windows are fixed. With regard to heating I would really prefer to avoid a solid fuel stove because of the mess and danger (there will be animals and young children aboard at times) so am thinking of adding the least naff electric stove I can find for use with shore power as an addition to the central heating and assuming that I'll mostly be using the boat for trips in better weather.

This boat has a high percentage of its side area as windows. A consequence of its hire origins. A lot of heat is going to escape from them. I'd recommend some other cheaper ideas to try first before going to the expense of thermal break double glazing. First off, nice thick lined curtains. Amazing the difference they make overnight. They also help with keeping the boat cool on a hot summers day, especially if the lining is white. There are also various plastic films and secondary double glazing that could be fitted to cut down the heat loss.

Having an electric heater as a back up to the Ebersplutter diesel heating would be a good idea, with the caveats on power consumption and shore bollard current limits that others have mentioned. I have a 2kW oil filled radiator as a rarely used backup to my solid fuel stove. It was bought when the boat was in a covered dry dock in March and the stove couldn't be lit. Since then it is used occasionally in winter when away from the boat as frost protection. It is lent to neighbouring boaters for the same reason. For a lived on boat, it is sensible to have two different heating methods available. Saying that, solid fuel stoves are the cheapest heating method and the most reliable for full time on-board use. Eberspacher and Webasto heaters seem to break a lot for some people, needing frequent, expensive repair. Some people swear by them. Others swear at them!

2 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

For cooking I may swap the stove which is there for one I already have (it is a land based one but new, so has the right cut-off things, is v small and a conversion kit is available for the gas type) but am unsure what to do about fridge/freezing. Do people who are mostly moored use larger domestic fridge-freezers? Or does one get used to the boat ones?

A full size domestic gas cooker with the appropriate LPG jets and flame failure cut offs is ideal for living on board. For fridges and freezers there is a lot of discussion on here. I use mains fridges as they are low cost to buy and with a good quality inverter for when you are away from the shore work well. For years I didn't have a freezer, but now do for frozen peas and ice cream! I empty this out and turn it off when out cruising.

 

Jen

[Guest]

I knew this forum would be helpful (I have been lurking until ready to (hopefully not) dip my toes as a boater) - thank you all!

 

So, for heating, best plan is to see how it goes with the radiators/hot water powered by the diesel (I think they are?!?) and then work out how to supplement when I see how cold it really gets? Or maybe work on the idea that cooking (and kettle boiling) can be gas based so really it is only lighting, laptop, fridge and whatever electric heater I'd be looking to power and then do some sums...? Maybe fit a few extra solar panels?

 

With regard to removing the beds they aren't ones with water tanks under or anything and I have a quote I'm comfortable with.

 

For the insulation is there anything I can ask the surveyor (clearly I'm someone who needs a full survey) to check specifically? It is supposed to be spray foam but presumably not all spray foam is equal/equally thickly applied...

Similarly for the broken hours counter - I'm guessing this is like mileage on a car - indicative of likely wear and tear - so, again is there anything I can ask to be checked for or is it just a question of how much of a gamble to take?

The mooring is a CRT one so I was thinking it would be less liable to the vagaries of life than a private one? I mean I know they can put up the prices and so forth but was hoping actual eviction unlikely? Or is that a real possibility?

 

Thank you so much!

[OldGoat]

Although you say that you have a permanent mooring, you should consider moving the boat away from the mooring for at least one day per year to legallay avoid a liability for council tax. Occasional cruising is part of what being on a canal is for..... You might even enjoy it.

My point is that the engine equipment must be usable

[Guest]

Oh, Jen-in-Wellies, we cross-posted. That is helpful, thank you. I'd been thinking of blinds but maybe the time is right to indulge my vintage velvet inclinations!

 

OldGoat - yes, definitely to fun trips/weekends away etc, I just meant I couldn't be a continuous cruiser as there are things we need to be near for work etc. There is actually a boat with no engine at all on the moorings, basically a floating flat, but I do want one that I can play with too :-)

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

So, for heating, best plan is to see how it goes with the radiators/hot water powered by the diesel (I think they are?!?) and then work out how to supplement when I see how cold it really gets? Or maybe work on the idea that cooking (and kettle boiling) can be gas based so really it is only lighting, laptop, fridge and whatever electric heater I'd be looking to power and then do some sums...? Maybe fit a few extra solar panels?

Quick boil kettles are 2 to 3kW and a 3kW one will nearly max out your bollard in the time it is on. Turn the kettle on at the same time as an electric heater is on and you'll trip a breaker. Most boaters, me inclluded, just have a kettle on the gas hob. Saves needing two kettles and remembering to change over when cruiising. 

10 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

The mooring is a CRT one so I was thinking it would be less liable to the vagaries of life than a private one? I mean I know they can put up the prices and so forth but was hoping actual eviction unlikely? Or is that a real possibility?

The only people I've ever heard of being moved on from CaRT run moorings have been complete ar$$es, who thoroughly merited it. Privately run ones depend entirely on the relationship with the owner/manager and can go bad for all sorts of reasons.

 

4 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I'd been thinking of blinds but maybe the time is right to indulge my vintage velvet inclinations!

The indulgence would be entirely sensible! I noticed a huge improvement in heat retention going from blinds to lined curtains.

 

Jen

[haggis]

I am intrigued by the mooring having electricity, phone, water and pumpout without the boat having to be moved. I can understand the first three but I have not heard (doesn't mean to say they don't exist) of a mooring with a pumpout on the pontoon. Is it perhaps a mobile pump out machine which comes ot the boat either by water or land? Just being nosey, really ? 

 

Good luck with your venture

 

haggis

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, haggis said:

I am intrigued by the mooring having electricity, phone, water and pumpout without the boat having to be moved. I can understand the first three but I have not heard (doesn't mean to say they don't exist) of a mooring with a pumpout on the pontoon. Is it perhaps a mobile pump out machine which comes ot the boat either by water or land? Just being nosey, really ? 

 

Good luck with your venture

 

haggis

Thank you! I *think* it may just be becasue the particular space is at that end of the moorings? I honestly may be wrong but I looked at the boat 'next door' and they were definitely close enough to the pump place to stay put. (They showed me how to connect the pipes etc). It was somewhere towards the land end of the pontoon but I can't honestly recall.

 

Edited to add - within the 'basin' anyway. And land based.

Edited September 12, 2019 by TheMenagerieAfloat

[Sea Dog]

Can't help thinking this is a waste of a perfectly nice boat where a static caravan might be a better solution. I note the ABNB bit on the details has been redacted so, whilst practically everyone here will know exactly where it is, those who know nothing about boats and boat sales won't rush in and buy it!

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Most boaters, me inclluded, just have a kettle on the gas hob. Saves needing two kettles and remembering to change over when cruiising.

 

The indulgence would be entirely sensible! I noticed a huge improvement in heat retention going from blinds to lined curtains.

Perfect! My enamel kettle and lovely velvet (I shall be *such* a hipster) it is then.

 

The quickboil one can be relegated to my new storage unit until such a time as I decide how permanent this whole boat venture is going to be ?

3 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Can't help thinking this is a waste of a perfectly nice boat where a static caravan might be a better solution. I note the ABNB bit on the details has been redacted so, whilst practically everyone here will know exactly where it is, those who know nothing about boats and boat sales won't rush in and buy it!

 

There are not static caravan options in the location I'm looking at mooring. And this is supposed to be 'fun'.

 

I didn't think it was right to post blatantly identifying details of a boat I don't own.

[howardang]

7 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Thank you! I *think* it may just be becasue the particular space is at that end of the moorings? I honestly may be wrong but I looked at the boat 'next door' and they were definitely close enough to the pump place to stay put. (They showed me how to connect the pipes etc). It was somewhere towards the land end of the pontoon but I can't honestly recall.

 

Edited to add - within the 'basin' anyway. And land based.

I would check any mooring agreement you sign. It is quite common for marinas and boatyards to say that they have a right to move you to a different mooring.

 

Howard

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, howardang said:

I would check any mooring agreement you sign. It is quite common for marinas and boatyards to say that they have a right to move you to a different mooring.

 

Howard

Oh, yes, they do. I'm OK with anything on that general stretch of canal really if it is just for maintenance. For long-term I do need the hook ups that come with though.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, dor said:

I take it that this is “Charis”.

 As a 15 year old hire boat I would be a bit suspicious of the number of hours, with the hours counter conveniently broken.

And I would be very careful about the mooring. If you are paying a premium to have the mooring transferred, remember that you have absolutely no security of tenure.

Good points - but, from the style of the advert (and as suggested by another poster) this is for sale at ABNB, who are known for their integrity.

[howardang]

20 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Oh, yes, they do. I'm OK with anything on that general stretch of canal really if it is just for maintenance. For long-term I do need the hook ups that come with though.

I wasn't suggesting just for their maintenance requirements. I was speaking about them changing your assigned berth. This can happen and you may have to factor this in to your plans. As DOR has said, you don't have security of tenure regarding a particular berth.

 

Howard

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

For the insulation is there anything I can ask the surveyor (clearly I'm someone who needs a full survey) to check specifically? It is supposed to be spray foam but presumably not all spray foam is equal/equally thickly applied...

Similarly for the broken hours counter - I'm guessing this is like mileage on a car - indicative of likely wear and tear - so, again is there anything I can ask to be checked for or is it just a question of how much of a gamble to take?
 

The brochure states it is spray foamed so it will be as good or bad as any other boat-you will never get to see it without destroying the interior. When the boat was inspected prior to going up for sale all the many details that are listed on the brochure are also meticuluosly checked. So the person who done the inspection has rooted about to check that it does in fact have spray foam insulation before writing it down.

Hour meters not displaying is quite common-you may find it will suddenly start to display again one sunny day if you are lucky.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

 

The mooring is a CRT one so I was thinking it would be less liable to the vagaries of life than a private one?

 

Alarm bells are ringing here!

Under CRT's standard moorings terms and conditions (https://www.watersidemooring.com/media/terms/Mooring-Agmnt-Ts-and-Cs-March-2016-FINAL-new-logo.pdf) moorings are personal to you. So you can put a different boat on your mooring (provided it fits) but you cannot transfer the mooring to the new owner when you sell the boat.

If you are thinking you are taking over the existing mooring with the boat, get this agreed in writing from CRT. Do not rely on the vendor's say so.

Note also that CRT reserve the right to move boats around within a particular mooring site. So you may not always be within reach of the pumpout.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Alarm bells are ringing here!

Under CRT's standard moorings terms and conditions (https://www.watersidemooring.com/media/terms/Mooring-Agmnt-Ts-and-Cs-March-2016-FINAL-new-logo.pdf) moorings are personal to you. So you can put a different boat on your mooring (provided it fits) but you cannot transfer the mooring to the new owner when you sell the boat.

If you are thinking you are taking over the existing mooring with the boat, get this agreed in writing from CRT. Do not rely on the vendor's say so.

Note also that CRT reserve the right to move boats around within a particular mooring site. So you may not always be within reach of the pumpout.

It is a 'historic mooring' - ie one that existed before the current scheme (not a buy it now/auction type of thing). It is fully transferable given that I buy the boat currently there (not the one shown above) and don't owe the CRT money or anything. And yes, I have checked with them. I do know these are rare though!

 

Presumably 'driving' the boat to the pump out every few weeks would be do-able? Would I need to do a longer trip in it? i.e. like nipping to to the corner shop in your car isn't great for it?

Edited September 12, 2019 by TheMenagerieAfloat

[cuthound]

52 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Presumably 'driving' the boat to the pump out every few weeks would be do-able? Would I need to do a longer trip in it? i.e. like nipping to to the corner shop in your car isn't great for it?

 

Providing you get the engine oil and water up to operating temperature it will be fine. Typically this will take around 20-30 minutes engine running, depending on load.

 

Don't forget it is good practice to run the engine periodically anyway, say at least once a month, or it may well not start when you need it to.

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I didn't think it was right to post blatantly identifying details of a boat I don't own.

Sorry but details of this boat are in the public domain,and since you don't own it then they are freely available.
And I doubt you would have got some of the answers here without the information that the ADVERTISEMENT provided. 

[Guest]

Never mind. I posted for views on what to do with a boat but am happy to hear how people think it best to use this forum too. :-)

On a different forum I'm on (non-boating) posting links to ads is actively discouraged in case people put a 'what do you think of this [non-boat?]' post up just to get extra hits on their own ad. Maybe boaters are less sneaky! And, for clarity, I'm not advertising this boat myself :-)