Leeds to York cruise - any considerations needed?

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

I have decided to purchase  Standard Horizon HX210E 

 

Can I suggest that you buy one WITH a USB charging port.

Saves a lot of hassle with charging cradles and mains leads.

 

Honestly, you wont reget it.

[Richard10002]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Can I suggest that you buy one WITH a USB charging port.

Saves a lot of hassle with charging cradles and mains leads.

 

Honestly, you wont reget it.

 

The HX210E seems to come with a 12V cigarette lighter type charging cable, with a barrel connector at the VHF end. Given that most boats have 12V cigarette lighter type sockets, this ought to be fine, with no regrets  .

 

In addition, if you really want to use USB for charging, it is possible to get USB 5v to 12V cables, with an appropriately sized barrel connector, although you might get a "standard sized" barrel connector, and need an adapter barrel.

[PD1964]

I know lots of Narrowboat owners who have a VHF radio, but none that have a license.

 Most just use their mobile phones to communicate with the lock keepers but have them on just to monitor the airwaves.

 The larger GRP’s on the Ouse and Trent tend to use VHF more, so it’s always handy as Nick says to listen out for them to try and gauge traffic you might meet.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I know lots of Narrowboat owners who have a VHF radio, but none that have a license.

 

The other side of the coin :

 

I know few NB owners with a VHF but all of them have both a boat licence and an operators licence.

I also know a few that are using 'iillegal' Marine VHF radios (well they only cost about £10 so are disposable)

 

I have had to programme a few for people.

 

The other thing to look for is to make sure that your radio covers the new Marine channels and channel frequency split to 12.5Kz, There are several new channel numbers and channel number allocation by usage has changed, add in the fact that Channel 16 is no longer monitored and you need to make sure your radio is an up-to-date model.

 

Some of the old duplex channels have been split to 2x simplex channels so 'old' radios will not work on them.

 

The new channels (primarily for intership communications and ship movements) are :

 

The 37 new Channel numbers are prefixed "10" or "20"  see attached list. 

 

 

 

 

New Marine Frequencies.xlsx

Edited March 14, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[PD1964]

Narrowboat users aren’t really concerned with most of the channels you mention as I would say more for off shore. Most just just use Ch74 and any specific to the lock or area their in or want to contact. I don’t think the OP needs to know that much about VHF, unless he wants to.

  

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Narrowboat users aren’t really concerned with most of the channels you mention as I would say more for off shore. Most just just use Ch74 and any specific to the lock or area their in or want to contact. I don’t think the OP needs to know that much about VHF, unless he wants to.

  

 

He'll need to have some knowledge of other channels if he is going on the Ouse / Humber / Trent (downstream of Gainsborough) where APB rules apply (and are enforced)

[Alan de Enfield]

 

The tidal section of the Ouse can be quite difficult (harder than the Trent) as the tide can run faster than a NB can travel. Timings will be critical.

 

(Extract from an MAIB accident enquiry)

 

1.7.1 Tidal conditions Tidal streams in the River Ouse typically run at a maximum rate of 3 to 4 knots, but this can exceed 6 knots in certain conditions. Tidal predictions are complex. During springs, there are 3.5 hours of flood tide and 8.5 hours of ebb. During neaps there are 5 hours of flood and 7 hours of ebb. Slack water occurs between 30 and 45 minutes after high water, by which time the tide has fallen 30cm. Online tidal monitoring and recording is carried out by a series of 16 transmitting tide gauges situated throughout the estuary. These gauges are all referenced to chart datum, in order for the mariner to apply readings directly to charted depths to determine available water for navigation. The tidal gauge information is used to inform ships’ masters, licensed pilots, PEC holders etc.

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, Steve Manc said:

Nicknorman, Midnight

 

I have decided to purchase  Standard Horizon HX210E  https://standardhorizon.co.uk/products/#handheld-vhf to enable me to listen to any chatter when arriving at locks or bridges on River Ouse. Also to communicate with them.

 

I understand from reading another thread 'VHF Radio' that I need a licence. This has been confirmed by https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/european-inland-waterways/Pages/atis-and-rainwat.aspx

 

The manual for HX210E states the user has to install the ATIS code. If you are narrow boaters only like myself and do not intend going on Coastal Waters what are your thoughts? 

https://standardhorizon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/HX210_E_OM_ENG_EM061N210_1804M-BC-1.pdf

 

RYA say the unit cannot be used on inline waters within 14 miles of coastal low tide if only on a inland licence. 

 

Thanks

 

Although I do have a radio operators license I use the thing so infrequently I can never remember most of what they taught us on the course including the phonetic alphabet. I seem to remember a lot of it was to do with May Day stuff which hopefully would be not used much on inland waterways. I have never been asked to show a license or challenged in any way. I also believe that you don't need a license for 'emergency' use. Never-the-less VHF is handy for listening to other craft especially returning to Selby on the Ouse. It takes about 25 minutes to turn the lock round so if you can hear the Selby lockie talking to boats in front and you know how many there are you can slow down from Turn Head and arrive when the river is clear and do the reverse exit technique. Otherwise you will need to turn after the lock a stem the tide until the lock is ready.

[LadyG]

I think you'll find the phonetic alphabet is easy enough to learn, its quite important because sometimes the signal is poor.

Just write down the details of your craft in the correct order , as per Mayday, again not difficult.

[john6767]

10 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

Although I do have a radio operators license I use the thing so infrequently I can never remember most of what they taught us on the course including the phonetic alphabet. I seem to remember a lot of it was to do with May Day stuff which hopefully would be not used much on inland waterways. I have never been asked to show a license or challenged in any way. I also believe that you don't need a license for 'emergency' use. Never-the-less VHF is handy for listening to other craft especially returning to Selby on the Ouse. It takes about 25 minutes to turn the lock round so if you can hear the Selby lockie talking to boats in front and you know how many there are you can slow down from Turn Head and arrive when the river is clear and do the reverse exit technique. Otherwise you will need to turn after the lock a stem the tide until the lock is ready.

Selby is the only time so far that I have had the lock keeper contact me on VHF, to tell me to hold back as he was cycling the lock.  Selby is one place that you do not want to arrive at before the lock is ready.

[Steve Manc]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The other side of the coin :

 

I know few NB owners with a VHF but all of them have both a boat licence and an operators licence.

I also know a few that are using 'iillegal' Marine VHF radios (well they only cost about £10 so are disposable)

 

I have had to programme a few for people.

 

The other thing to look for is to make sure that your radio covers the new Marine channels and channel frequency split to 12.5Kz, There are several new channel numbers and channel number allocation by usage has changed, add in the fact that Channel 16 is no longer monitored and you need to make sure your radio is an up-to-date model.

 

Some of the old duplex channels have been split to 2x simplex channels so 'old' radios will not work on them.

 

The new channels (primarily for intership communications and ship movements) are :

 

Channel number 

2006 (this is the old duplex Ch6 split to be the 'new' Ch6 and the 'new' Ch2006)

1019

2019

1020

2020

1078

2078

1079

2079

 

 

The following info on page 41 & 42 shows it has all these channels except  2006

https://standardhorizon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/HX210_E_OM_ENG_EM061N210_1804M-BC-1.pdf

Great feed back by all

 

Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

The following info on page 41 & 42 shows it has all these channels except  2006

https://standardhorizon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/HX210_E_OM_ENG_EM061N210_1804M-BC-1.pdf

 

 

Thats good, but as a new radio it should have - the problem comes where folks are using a radio 'a few years old' thinking they are transmitting on (say) Channel 6 and they are not.

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

He'll need to have some knowledge of other channels if he is going on the Ouse / Humber / Trent (downstream of Gainsborough) where APB rules apply (and are enforced)

He’s going from Leeds to York via Selby. 
 So no need for any of the above. Just confusing him if anything, just use your common sense not anywhere has he mentioned any of the above so completely irrelevant to his initial post.

Edited March 14, 2021 by PD1964

[PD1964]

40 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The tidal section of the Ouse can be quite difficult (harder than the Trent) as the tide can run faster than a NB can travel. Timings will be critical.

He’ll be advised by the lock keepers both at Selby and Naburn and they will operate the lock according to the safe tide times and let him out. He will probably travel with at least one other Narrowboat and be totally safe, like the hundreds of Narrowboats that do it every year.  Please stop trying to over egg the situation.

[Midnight]

47 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

He’ll be advised by the lock keepers both at Selby and Naburn and they will operate the lock according to the safe tide times and let him out. He will probably travel with at least one other Narrowboat and be totally safe, like the hundreds of Narrowboats that do it every year.  Please stop trying to over egg the situation.

 

Actually Alan is correct to say that as he is advising a novice. I wouldn't say it's dangerous but first time out of Selby can be a bit daunting on a big spring tide. Several boats at Ripon bore the scars of contact with Selby road bridge and I've known a couple more who did a 180 on Selby corner. Coming down isn't really an issue in any conditions but going up on a big spring can be unkind to a novice. I know cos I was once that novice.
My advice going up on big springs
1/ take it easy exiting the lock the tide will turn you upstream
2/ don't ease off if the tide pushes you left going between the bridges

3/ take a wide (2/3) line around Selby corner, Turn Head and other sharp corners

4/ after the Hovis factory stay left of the centre line and be careful the current doesn't take you across into the willows before you realise it

5/ check there are no big logs ahead that could close the door when approaching Cawood bridge

6/ avoid the flotsam especially branches they may be attached to bigger branches under the surface

7/ if you do get a branch in the prop that stops the engine try starting it in reverse gear

 

I've done it in just about all conditions but if you want a gentle cake walk go up on a neap.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Midnight

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

 

Although I do have a radio operators license I use the thing so infrequently I can never remember most of what they taught us on the course including the phonetic alphabet. I seem to remember a lot of it was to do with May Day stuff which hopefully would be not used much on inland waterways. I have never been asked to show a license or challenged in any way. I also believe that you don't need a license for 'emergency' use. Never-the-less VHF is handy for listening to other craft especially returning to Selby on the Ouse. It takes about 25 minutes to turn the lock round so if you can hear the Selby lockie talking to boats in front and you know how many there are you can slow down from Turn Head and arrive when the river is clear and do the reverse exit technique. Otherwise you will need to turn after the lock a stem the tide until the lock is ready.

or Pan-Pan?

[PD1964]

It’s like every big river, people can fill your head with this and that and fear, but the lock keepers will advise and only let him out if conditions are safe. On the day he might travel with a few boats that have done it before, so he can slot in with them. Everyone has different thoughts and opinions on risk and how difficult it is and he will gauge this once he’s done it.

Edited March 14, 2021 by PD1964

[Midnight]

4 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

It’s like every big river, people can fill your head with this and that and fear, 

 You've not done it on a big spring then?
No need for anyone to be fearful just careful in some conditions

 

[PD1964]

11 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 You've not done it on a big spring then?
No need for anyone to be fearful just careful in some conditions

 

Yes I have actually and yes there was a lot of debris/large branches going through the bridge at Selby and on the river but you watch out for it and avoid the best you can.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by PD1964

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

He’s going from Leeds to York via Selby. 
 So no need for any of the above. Just confusing him if anything, just use your common sense not anywhere has he mentioned any of the above so completely irrelevant to his initial post.

 

It is very easy for an experienced boater to get complacent and suggest that it'll be as easy for someone who has only done the Trent with an experienced person at the helm.

 

I'd suggest that it is far better that a novice be a little aprehensive, it make them concentrate better.

[Kieron G]

The thing I learned from experience about going down to Selby from Naburn is to when approaching the last bend and going under the bridges is to leave a good distance from any boats in front and keep the power ramped a up bit otherwise the river can try and wash the boat off course. That's one place where you don't want the engine to stop

[Kieron G]

On 28/05/2020 at 19:28, Midnight said:

"I could fancy myself stopping in Selby for a week or so - I've not been there for ages."
 

Great place especially if you spend 6 of those 7 days at West Haddlesey

 

"And I also note there is a navigation up to Tadcaster. Is it actually navigable? I should check canal plan."

 

Fortune favours the brave let us know how you get on - if you get back!

Navigation to Tadcaster. I looked at this. The river Wharfe at a village called Ulleskelf is very shallow at normal level. 

[Steve Manc]

All

 

Thanks for your comments. 

[Steve Manc]

 

Waiting until after Crick Virtual Boat Show before buying VHF radio, hopefully there may be a few deals. I am now looking at https://icomuk.co.uk/IC-M25Euro/Handheld-VHF-Marine-Radio

 

From people posts I recognize some boaters choose not to take up a VHF licence. I found this link with a sample online course 

https://www.seavoice-training.co.uk/events/rya-online-vhf-radio-course/

 

I have learnt River Ouse uses channel 9 & 74 - River Thames 17 - Gloucester & Sharpness Canal, Sharpness Port 13.

Ribble Link and Weaver Navigation use phone numbers for the locks. 

 

Are you aware of any other Rivers that narrowboats can cruise on that use VHF Radio channels for Locks and Bridges ? 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

Are you aware of any other Rivers that narrowboats can cruise on that use VHF Radio channels for Locks and Bridges ? 

 

River Trent is Channels, 74, 8 & 6 Marinas use Channel M1 or M2

Some NBs travel on the Humber to Hull but its not one I'd recommend.