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Reopening of Runcorn locks and Newport Branch


Philip

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Looking at past experience Runcorn could be delivered in two years and Newport in five - but neither have started yet.

 

Getting expensive schemes to the starting line is the slow bit! The number of permissions and the gathering of funds takes a long time and sometimes defeats the cause for a while. 

 

These two schemes aren't made any easier as they involve long flights of locks, which makes piecemeal reopening problematic

 

So, in ten years yes, but not the next ten, ten from when they get going 

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I did hear of the Runcorn restoration, but perhaps somebody can clarify, which Runcorn Lock flight is planned for restoration, there were two. Certainly there are major obstacles, but the one to the north seems more of a practical option.

 

Restoration of Newport branch could be done  towards Newport, I suppose, but would the locks, if restoration proceeds, be done in the original style? Then there is the water loss to consider, or does that not matter?

 

An equal pertinent question is the restoration of the Derby Canal. Putting aside the HS2 tramway link, there was the suggestion of a swinging cradle to carry boats across the Derwent. It was announced at the IWA Festival at Burton and seemed to be a novel concept.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Heartland said:

perhaps somebody can clarify, which Runcorn Lock flight is planned for restoration

It would be the flight to the North that runs NW to SE; the (newer?) flight running East to West, and parallel to the Ropewalk, has been built on.

 

It's quite eerie walking the flight that we hope will be restored because there's lots of the original stonework in place. A couple of weekend's effort with a JCB (other excavators are available) should sort it. Then a drive over to Devises on the the Kennet & Avon Canal and ask them to return the gates and we'll be in business. ?

Edited by sans allumette
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Where's the funding coming from for the Runcorn locks reopening? Or, to put it another way, what's the incentive to do this? 

 

There's already 3 access points on the MSC, does adding a fourth really benefit anyone except very marginally? Its still the MSC, whilst being there, its got to be considered a very rarely used waterway for canal boats......

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44 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Where's the funding coming from for the Runcorn locks reopening? Or, to put it another way, what's the incentive to do this? 

 

There's already 3 access points on the MSC, does adding a fourth really benefit anyone except very marginally? Its still the MSC, whilst being there, its got to be considered a very rarely used waterway for canal boats......

 

I agree. Meanwhile the Lichfield and Haterton canals restoration struggles to raise cash, and if reopened would provide short cuts and bring much needed traffic to the less accessible parts of the BCN.

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Restoring the Runcorn locks would open up an interesting little cruising ring but it would need changes to the way the ship canal works. We did a bit of the ship canal last year, it was interesting and surprisingly pretty but its expensive with a lot of paperwork. The turn into the Weaver is not self service, it needs CRT to work the lock, and can be windy so not really ideal for hire boats. As said above, there are other restorations that would get a lot more use.

 

..............Dave

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On 10/09/2019 at 17:41, ditchcrawler said:

But what will be the MSC view on it all

Agree ! Whilst it might be nice to reopen the locks, unless Peel become more amenable to easily allowing boats on to the Ship Canal, there's not much point as there might be no reason to go down there in the first place... other than the usual 'because they're there' reason.

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1 hour ago, Philip said:

How about increasing the depth of 8 of the locks and dig out the last two in order provide space to build a basin at the bottom of the locks for people to moor in, before the junction with the Ship Canal?

That would mean building a completely new flight of locks, rather than just excavating and repairing the old ones, which have just been infilled.

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3 hours ago, Pete of Ebor said:

Agree ! Whilst it might be nice to reopen the locks, unless Peel become more amenable to easily allowing boats on to the Ship Canal, there's not much point as there might be no reason to go down there in the first place... other than the usual 'because they're there' reason.

Would make a lot of sense if the connection through to the Weaver near Weston Point were re-made. Another great circular route.

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Restoring Runcorn Locks and the canal link to the Weaver would open up a useful link, if it was possible to make it possible. A new ring would be created that involved the Anderton Lift and the Bridgewater.

 

Putting back the waterway at Runcorn under this bridge would be a memorable event in itself- RCHS Hugh Compton Collection

 

 

 

64290.jpg

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On 10/09/2019 at 16:32, sans allumette said:

It would be the flight to the North that runs NW to SE; the (newer?) flight running East to West, and parallel to the Ropewalk, has been built on.

 

It's quite eerie walking the flight that we hope will be restored because there's lots of the original stonework in place. A couple of weekend's effort with a JCB (other excavators are available) should sort it. Then a drive over to Devises on the the Kennet & Avon Canal and ask them to return the gates and we'll be in business. ?

Well you can ask but Devizes locks got brand new gates on restoration, hands off!

 

It is said that the gates from Runcorn went to the Upper Avon, where the locks were brand new, thus the lock could be made to fit the gate rather  than the other way round. I don't know if this is true but I seem to recall on my first trip up the Avon seeing a few gates that were clearly a lot older than the locks they were fitted to!

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On 12/09/2019 at 14:11, Philip said:

How about increasing the depth of 8 of the locks and dig out the last two in order provide space to build a basin at the bottom of the locks for people to moor in, before the junction with the Ship Canal?

We walked down those locks a couple of years and I half remember the remains of quite a big basin half way down, so it would only require this to be restored? But, how many boaters are going to go down the Runcor Arm then down a few locks to moor in a basin next to a housing estate? A plan for a credible cruising ring/second easy access to the Weaver is what is needed to justify restoring these locks.   ...and probably getting it run by CRT rather than Peel Holdings.

 

..............Dave

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16 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

It is said that the gates from Runcorn went to the Upper Avon

I quoted from the site ( http://www.unlockruncorn.org/rlrs ), where at the end of that page it notes: "The old line of locks in Runcorn fell into disuse in the late 1930s, and they were closed under the Ship Canal Act of 1949 and filled in. The Ship Canal Act of 1966 allowed the closure and filling in of the newer line of locks. The gates from this flight of locks were removed and installed at Devizes on the Kennet & Avon Canal."

 

But now that I have read this again, the gates allegedly in Devises are from the new line of locks that have been built over, so they wouldn't fit the old flight.

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I notice that little is mentioned about the Newport branch. The land owners were instrumental in destroying all records as soon as the Act of Parliament abandoning the canal was passed. Local roadworks are now very restrictive, and without somewhere to go if you reach Shrewsbury, (Severn restoration is surely a no-no). Very few would want to go there just to come back.

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11 hours ago, sans allumette said:

I quoted from the site ( http://www.unlockruncorn.org/rlrs ), where at the end of that page it notes: "The old line of locks in Runcorn fell into disuse in the late 1930s, and they were closed under the Ship Canal Act of 1949 and filled in. The Ship Canal Act of 1966 allowed the closure and filling in of the newer line of locks. The gates from this flight of locks were removed and installed at Devizes on the Kennet & Avon Canal."

 

But now that I have read this again, the gates allegedly in Devises are from the new line of locks that have been built over, so they wouldn't fit the old flight.

I hadn't read the website  but it's wrong. They didn't go to Devizes, which got 58 pairs of new gates at restoration. Runcorn new locks wouldn't have fitted Devizes either. 

7 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

I notice that little is mentioned about the Newport branch. The land owners were instrumental in destroying all records as soon as the Act of Parliament abandoning the canal was passed. Local roadworks are now very restrictive, and without somewhere to go if you reach Shrewsbury, (Severn restoration is surely a no-no). Very few would want to go there just to come back.

Newport would attract a few hundred boats a year, perhaps more as there is a hire base at the start of it. It would also give opportunities for a marina or two. Development in Shrewsbury makes the old line through Ditherington virtually impossible, but Shrewsbury would be a good destination. 

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On 12/09/2019 at 15:40, David Mack said:

That would mean building a completely new flight of locks, rather than just excavating and repairing the old ones, which have just been infilled.

There used to b e a basin, a wharf & graving dock, and the short iron ore and sebastopol arms.

 

Capture.JPG.44f8029257a873ff0643acd2bb82f9a5.JPG

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What might make the Runcorn Flight more attractive is a basin development just short of the ship canal (above the bottom two rise I guess) so that boats can go that far and moor up in an enviroment similar to Gas Street or Brecon basin, perhaps with short and long stay moorings. This would have to be carefully thought out but it could be an interim stage and a springboard to greater things once either agreement is reached with the MSC or a way of bypassing the MSC to get to the Weaver/Runcorn and Weston Canal has been devised.  

On 13/09/2019 at 10:23, Pluto said:

This shows the locks in 1976, when a drain from the new road system was installed. I don't think there would be anything of much use to the K&AC restoration.

 

Nothing was much use to the K&A restoration in 1976! I think one or two Kennet locks had been rebuilt but that was about it (and from memory they had steel gates)

 

Edited by magpie patrick
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There probably is a case for a marina development at Runcorn, which Peel Holdings might well see as a potential source of revenue.

 

As to the Newport Canal, Wappenshall is seen as a potential destination as the heritage warehouses are to be found there. Several year ago there was a suggestion that the restoration scheme might join the Severn and in that fashion reach Shrewsbury. If by some chance this did actually happen, this scheme would succeed to link with the Severn when all others had failed. The Shrewsbury Canal did not join the Severn even if it skirted the northern bank on the approach to Shrewsbury. The two Ellesmere Canal schemes intended to meet the Severn either side of the town. Once parllament approved the Ellesmere Canal the junction was to be to the west of Shrewsbury. Sadly that authorised route was never built and the Ellesmere Canal only went as far as Weston.. Today Shrewsbury has a trip boat on the Severn that travels between the two bridges on a section of water that is preserved by a weir down stream. 

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