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Onionman

Boat share. Small, medium and big question.

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We're really in the final stages of buying a share in a boat. We're down to a choice of three.

 

1. Small question: Do marinas charge fees for leaving your car there? Never been charged in the past but then we've always been hiring.


2. Medium question: Incremental costs for a fortnight. We're reckoning £100-£120 fuel (we don't do long days) and £20 pump-out. Obviously also food.  Anything else we might need to consider?

 

3. Big question: One shared ownership company (no names, no pack drill) seems to come in at £1,600ish per annum, one at £1,800ish and one at £2,000ish (all for a 1/12 share).  They all have around the same annual management fee so the difference is running costs. It seems to me that running similar size and age boats for similar numbers of weeks should cost roughly the same amount per annum. What am I missing? Do the cheaper ones have bigger unexpected shocks? I'm a great believer that you don't get owt for nowt, so am I right in being optimistic about the higher maintenance and pessimistic about the lower or is someone pulling a fast one? The most expensive of the three boasts about including everything but I'd like independent confirmation that they are being truthful rather than taking a few quid extra somewhere.

 

Answers and opinions appreciated!

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Onionman said:

Do the cheaper ones have bigger unexpected shocks?

You would probably be best asking the syndicate what is included.

 

Assuming the boats are of a similar age, size and value then :

My suggestion would be that the higher cost syndicates are planning ahead for a major expenditure (painting, new engine or whatever) and building up a 'kitty' in the bank account. The 'cheaper' ones may come to you and say - sorry - a problem we need £10k for a re-paint and we have nothing in the bank.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, Onionman said:

We're really in the final stages of buying a share in a boat. We're down to a choice of three.

 

1. Small question: Do marinas charge fees for leaving your car there? Never been charged in the past but then we've always been hiring.


2. Medium question: Incremental costs for a fortnight. We're reckoning £100-£120 fuel (we don't do long days) and £20 pump-out. Obviously also food.  Anything else we might need to consider?

 

3. Big question: One shared ownership company (no names, no pack drill) seems to come in at £1,600ish per annum, one at £1,800ish and one at £2,000ish (all for a 1/12 share).  They all have around the same annual management fee so the difference is running costs. It seems to me that running similar size and age boats for similar numbers of weeks should cost roughly the same amount per annum. What am I missing? Do the cheaper ones have bigger unexpected shocks? I'm a great believer that you don't get owt for nowt, so am I right in being optimistic about the higher maintenance and pessimistic about the lower or is someone pulling a fast one? The most expensive of the three boasts about including everything but I'd like independent confirmation that they are being truthful rather than taking a few quid extra somewhere.

 

Answers and opinions appreciated!

 

 

 

Before buying a whole boat of my own, I had shares in boats for 21 years.

 

1. I have never paid a marina to park there. Itbis included in their mooring charges. 

 

2. Work on 1.5 litres of diesel per hours engine running, plus £20 for a pump out and about £30 for tbe occasional gas bottle. Allow a bit more in winter for gas or diesel for the central heating.

 

3. This will depend in the age of the boat. Older boats need more maintenance. Also some syndicates put money aside towards big items like a new engine (every 10,000-15,000 of engine running, interior refits and ecternal repaints. 

 

 

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All done. Looks like some companies try to include everything in the monthly bill while others bill separately for bigger items that may come in over winter.

 

And, in other news (obviously not unrelated) are now the proud owners of 4ft 10in of a 58ft narrowboat!

Edited by Onionman

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23 minutes ago, Onionman said:

All done. Looks like some companies try to include everything in the monthly bill while others bill separately for bigger items that may come in over winter.

 

And, in other news (obviously not unrelated) are now the proud owners of 4ft 10in of a 58ft narrowboat!

 

Congratulations, you are now on the second part of a a very slippery slope.

 

The final stage is when you buy a whole one. 😁

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Pro's and Cons with the way syndicates run on charges.... we looked into it and found:

 

Some syndicates have higher monthly fees and this builds up a kitty for when larger things need doing. The advantage is that it just gets done and nobody needs to pay any more. The downside is if the syndicate has a turnover of people, you pay into a kitty but may not be a member when the big bills come - you cant claim it back. We decided on a syndicate without a reserve since the unexpected/big bills are still split 12 or 15 ways etc so still manageable and we preferred the lower monthly charge (its about £50 a month cheaper than most syndicates). We put aside the difference between our syndicate cost and one with a higher monthly fee, but the advantage is we get this money back..... hope that helps??

 

As a plug our syndicate share is for sale... :)

Edited by robtheplod

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On 08/09/2019 at 18:04, ditchcrawler said:

BCBM give a breakdown of the cost, I dont know what the turn round/ valet/ service chargers are, I would have thought one would cancel the other https://www.bcbm.co.uk How it works in publications.

Capture.JPG

My boat only has one owner but I don't pay out £14,000 a year

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On ‎08‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 18:04, ditchcrawler said:

BCBM give a breakdown of the cost, I dont know what the turn round/ valet/ service chargers are, I would have thought one would cancel the other https://www.bcbm.co.uk How it works in publications.

Capture.JPG

 

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

My boat only has one owner but I don't pay out £14,000 a year

 

Presumably you don't :

 

pay someone £1250 per annum to 'turnaround'

pay someone £300 per week to have the boat valeted.

spend £5500 every winter on maintenance

spend £1000 per annum on gas

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Presumably you don't :

 

pay someone £1250 per annum to 'turnaround'

pay someone £300 per week to have the boat valeted.

spend £5500 every winter on maintenance

spend £1000 per annum on gas

What would you suggest they do each winter for £5500 . As for turn round I take it that is a pump out because servicing is extra

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10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Presumably you don't :

 

pay someone £300 per week to have the boat valeted.

 

I don't pay that much to have my 6 bedroomed house cleaned per week!!

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29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Presumably you don't :

pay someone £300 per week to have the boat valeted.

To be fair, neither do they. That'd be £15,000 a year!

 

The valeting is clearly used to be sure that a person getting onto the boat after someone else is getting it in clean condition. Obviously a charge that if you run your own boat you'd be avoiding.

 

These are boats that are typically running for 45ish weeks a year so I expect maintenence charges to be high. For example, from what I've found out so far, pretty much all shared boats are reblacked every winter. That would be overkill on a typical boat run for, what, three or four weeks a year. (No, people on here are probably not typical, before anyone tell me theirs runs 53 weeks a year). For a boat run every week, that sounds sensible and the base plate will take a hammering.

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8 hours ago, Onionman said:

To be fair, neither do they. That'd be £15,000 a year!

Ooops - You are correct I typed an extra "0".

 

8 hours ago, Onionman said:

That would be overkill on a typical boat run for, what, three or four weeks a year.

 

Just remember that there are 5000+ people who live on their boats, most of which are moving very regularly.

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Included in the winter maintenance are things like checking that everything (including the engine and all its parts which will have had a lot of hours added to the clock) works and that gas systems are still safe. Also there will be full repaints, not every year but more frequent than most boats. The fee also has to cover anything the owners agree at their annual meeting that they want done and having had a share in a boat for over 20 years you wouldn't believe some of the weird and wonderful ideas owners come up with! Changing the layout,  fitting extra power points to facilitate charging phones etc without having to walk to the other end of the boat, having seats recovered etc etc. . 

 

Haggis

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just remember that there are 5000+ people who live on their boats, most of which are moving very regularly.

 

Indeed. However, our use of the four annual weeks of usage that we've just bought is probably going to be rather different from people who live aboard. A sensible comparison might be with (albeit more careful than average) hirers running the boat for forty-odd weeks a year.


All I'm saying is that it's no major surprise to me that maintenance charges are higher on a shared boat.

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12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

As for turn round I take it that is a pump out because servicing is extra

When we had our shares, turn around included checking the pump out had been done, laundry of sheets, duvets, and teatowels, checking diesel tank had been refilled, checking engine oil and stern grease, replacing broken crockery and things, and rectifying any faults reported.

It was them that ensured the boats were ready for the next occupants and that any charges to the previous people due to damage or accidents was charged to them.

Sometimes they had lots to do, sometimes very little, but the share "management" soon got to know which sharers caused the most work and could deal with that. I can certainly remember one sharer having their share terminated.

Edited by Graham Davis

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On 09/09/2019 at 15:36, Onionman said:

All done. Looks like some companies try to include everything in the monthly bill while others bill separately for bigger items that may come in over winter.

 

And, in other news (obviously not unrelated) are now the proud owners of 4ft 10in of a 58ft narrowboat!

Congratulations! Which bit is yours? I'd bagsy the back end if you can.

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4 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

Congratulations! Which bit is yours? I'd bagsy the back end if you can.

Nah, the stern is pointless :D

 

 

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12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Presumably you don't :

 

pay someone £1250 per annum to 'turnaround'

pay someone £300 per week to have the boat valeted.

spend £5500 every winter on maintenance

spend £1000 per annum on gas

Who pays £5500 every winter on maintenance?! And what kind of maintenance are they doing every winter for £5500? £1000 per annum on gas?? I live on my boat and I swap cylinders (I have two) twice a year. That's just over a £100 a year. Turnaround I assume is not the physical act of turning the boat around but the cost of getting one boat shareholder off the boat and the next on - ie. cleaning, etc. etc. Which is possibly fair.

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17 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

Congratulations! Which bit is yours? I'd bagsy the back end if you can.

 

Unfortunately I believe we have the toilet. Which is going to feel awfully cramped after two weeks.

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2 hours ago, Onionman said:

 

Unfortunately I believe we have the toilet. Which is going to feel awfully cramped after two weeks.

No - you are just taking the Pi55 !!

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The cost of cleaning isn't included with BCBM, you have to arrange for a valet if you don't clean it yourself - about £40 if I recall?

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8 hours ago, robtheplod said:

The cost of cleaning isn't included with BCBM, you have to arrange for a valet if you don't clean it yourself - about £40 if I recall?

What I posted was from their web site. I was also in a share scheme for 8 years

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