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NB DW

How to ask whether liveaboards are accepted...

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Hello,

 

I'm new to the forums here but have been reading for a while now.

 

I'm putting my house up for rent in the early part of 2020 having just about scraped/borrowed enough money to buy a boat to live on full time.

 

I'm lucky enough to have a few marinas local to me but I don't think either legitimately accept liveaboards.  I happened to see a Youtube video of a narrowboat blogger who's based at one of the marinas I'm interested in using, and he mentioned there are a couple of liveaboards there.

 

Asking outright whether they accept liveaboards will, I'm guessing, probably lead to a flat refusal.  My home's only a few miles from the places I'm looking to moor and I'm hoping having a permanent address will help blur the lines a bit and help with arguing the boat isn't my full time residence if anyone were to start digging.

 

So how's it best to phrase when asking whether they'll accept a liveaboard?  I'm reading things like 'extended stay' etc hint at it rather than explicity say it...

 

Thanks in advance.

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It may be worth checking the marinas T&C's.

 

Our Marina has the following definition for 'leisure' moorings :

 

Non-residential approved status moorings, allowing unlimited leisure use within the marina.  The vessel will be accommodated within the marina for 365 days within any one year. This is not a 365 day residential mooring although stays on boats summer and winter is an expectation with confirmation of residency away from the marina to be supplied upon request from BWML.  Vessels will regularly leave berths to refuel, pump out and cruise. 
 
Service provision provided with a Leisure status berth will be:- 
 
365 day access to the vessel, but no right to reside aboard. 

Maximum 16 amp electrical supply (chargeable). 

Water connection all year round (subject to underground freezing caused by severe weather conditions),  

Parking subject to availability (extra charge could apply at certain locations). 

Free use of marina customer toilets, showers and elsan facilities.  

Laundrette and pump out facilities are chargeable where available. 

The ability for post handling using the marina as a C/O address for short periods and with approval from the Marina Manager, the marina address is not permitted for use on personal correspondence. 

Emergency call provision (Free phone Canals 0800 47999 47). 

 

As long as you can provide evidence that your 'main residence' is elsewhere (Council tax bill, utilities bills etc all in YOUR name) and you do not stay for more than 28 consecutive nights (you need to sleep elsewhere for one night and that re-sets the clock - either in a B&B, a friends house or take the boat out of the marina and back the next day) you can have a leisure mooring..

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Thank you.

 

I'm hoping for a bit of a loophole like the one mentioned in your contract which allows me to stay there so long as I take the boat out once a month.  That'd be my intention anyhow.  I don't think I could stay permanently moored up without ever moving!

 

I wouldn't have any bills in my name which correspond to my rented out home, other than my mortgage, as utilities etc would go under the name of whoever rents it.  I've an unsecured loan though which shows the address if that'd be passable too.

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1 minute ago, NB DW said:

Thank you.

 

I'm hoping for a bit of a loophole like the one mentioned in your contract which allows me to stay there so long as I take the boat out once a month.  That'd be my intention anyhow.  I don't think I could stay permanently moored up without ever moving!

 

I wouldn't have any bills in my name which correspond to my rented out home, other than my mortgage, as utilities etc would go under the name of whoever rents it.  I've an unsecured loan though which shows the address if that'd be passable too.

Presumably you will have 'named' bills available "recently dated" but prior to your tenants taking over ?

Council tax bills only come out once per year so you should have a reasonably "in date" CT bill ?

Loans and mortgage payments don't really indicate that you live there.

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No issue with providing that at the moment; mortgage, utilities etc all at this address.  I'm more thinking a year or two down the line.

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One important thing to bear in mind if you manage to secure a mooring without full residential status is discretion, keep a low profile and stay under the radar. I've seen many problems develop due to people's behaviour - untidiness, dog mess left around, washing hung out, and so on. The discrete generally have few problems once established. 

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Thanks.

 

Just spoken to one by phone who do offer legitimate residential moorings but they're full.  They recommended another locally, one I'm due to visit later today, as they know they have liveaboards there despite it not being a residential marina.  They mentioned it's probably best not to even mention I'm looking at extended stays there with a view to disappearing out at the weekends.  I'm just concerned that if I'm disingenuous and they become unhappy for whatever reason then I run the risk of being kicked off.  It's good to know at least there's others living there too so looks like they permit it.

 

I'm in my mid 30s and would be living alone and not for drawing attention to myself.  I spend a lot of time at work - I'm usually out by 0730 at the latest and never back before 1800, so would probably go under the radar by default.

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20 minutes ago, NB DW said:

Thanks.

 

Just spoken to one by phone who do offer legitimate residential moorings but they're full.  They recommended another locally, one I'm due to visit later today, as they know they have liveaboards there despite it not being a residential marina.  They mentioned it's probably best not to even mention I'm looking at extended stays there with a view to disappearing out at the weekends.  I'm just concerned that if I'm disingenuous and they become unhappy for whatever reason then I run the risk of being kicked off.  It's good to know at least there's others living there too so looks like they permit it.

 

I'm in my mid 30s and would be living alone and not for drawing attention to myself.  I spend a lot of time at work - I'm usually out by 0730 at the latest and never back before 1800, so would probably go under the radar by default.

Every privately owned marina I know has residents. They are allowed one full time as watchman or whatever they want to call it anyway.

If you don't make waves its a reasonably certain long term arrangement. You have no right of tenure anywhere anyway.

Linear farm moorings are the land of long term residents' moorings, may be worth considering.

We solve the problem by flying off south for most or all of winter so we are not in residence for the whole year.

We did get evicted from one northern marina for refusing to pay 3 times the legal rate for electricity and an imposed "non recreational capitation charge" if we spent more than 3 nights on the boat. Leaving was one of the best things we ever did. We started up a new farm mooring and it is bliss compared with living in marinas which is just like  glorified car parks with water.

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I spoke a few minutes ago to another big marina which is close by, and was honest with what I'm looking for.  They were really helpful and explained they don't have a maximum number of nights you're allowed to stay onboard, just that it cannot be your primary place of residence, i.e. you can't put their address as your address.  But other than that they're more than happy to have you spend 365 nights a year there.

 

With it being my first go at living aboard and also being alone, with extremely limited mechanical/electrical knowledge if things were to go wrong, I'm probably going to head to a marina for the first year.  Having an electric hook up is preferable due to wanting a washing machine onboard.  Solar alone probably isn't going to be enough for me.  And outside of a marina I'd probably annoy others with needing to run an engine late in the evening when I'm home from work. 

 

I also need car parking and I think I'd struggle to find in most places other than a marina.  The only acception being Midway Boats, Barbridge on the Middlewich, but there's no electric hook up unfortunately.

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Some marinas and long term moorings turn a blind eye to liveaboards even if their Ts & Cs say otherwise. The only way to find out is to ask a tactfully phrased question. In the past I've just asked what the approach is to people living on their boats. They can only reply with a blunt refusal and then you have your answer.

 

The thing to bear in mind is that on any unofficial liveaboard mooring you don't refer to your boat as your home in any communications with the mooring administrator or the waterways authority. You're in a grey area and you've got to play the game. No doubt some here will say it's not a grey area at all and what you're doing is illegal. I tell them to mind their own business. Having liveaboards around whether official or unofficial helps with security in many places, so people who are lucky enough to live in houses and also own boats should be glad there are people around every night to act as unpaid security as well as keeping an eye on unoccupied boats that might be taking on water, etc. I've lost count of how many neighbours' boats I've saved from sinking when the river flooded and then levels fell and the owners weren't around to adjust their ropes.

Edited by blackrose

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3 minutes ago, NB DW said:

I spoke a few minutes ago to another big marina which is close by, and was honest with what I'm looking for.  They were really helpful and explained they don't have a maximum number of nights you're allowed to stay onboard, just that it cannot be your primary place of residence, i.e. you can't put their address as your address.  But other than that they're more than happy to have you spend 365 nights a year there.

Prevaricate too long and it may not be there when you want it.

 

Just go for it before they fill up or change their mind.

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Prevaricate too long and it may not be there when you want it.

 

Just go for it before they fill up or change their mind.

Problem is they're full, at least for 57-60ft boats.

 

It'll be either late this year or very early the next before the house is let and a boat's found, with any luck.  They advised to speak again in a few months as people sometimes disappear for the winter and a space might become free.  I was invited down to get a tour today so they're serious with what they're offering.

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5 minutes ago, NB DW said:

I spoke a few minutes ago to another big marina which is close by, and was honest with what I'm looking for.  They were really helpful and explained they don't have a maximum number of nights you're allowed to stay onboard, just that it cannot be your primary place of residence, i.e. you can't put their address as your address.  But other than that they're more than happy to have you spend 365 nights a year there.

 

Yes, I've met unofficial liveaboards who insist on getting mail sent to the moorings and using the marina address as their residential address, and then they wonder why they have problems or end up getting kicked off.

  • Greenie 1

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Frankly, don't ask in the first place. Just start living there. If you keep your head down sufficiently no-one will notice or care.

 

If you get rumbled and challenged, you'll know you weren't flying below the radar enough.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, NB DW said:

Problem is they're full, at least for 57-60ft boats.

 

Reminds me of my old 'boss'.

 

Customer phones the sales office and asks for a price for some components, the sales girl give him the price and he 'explodes' "how much ? that's ridiculous I want to speak to your MD".

 

Gets put through to the MD, who gives him the same price, the customer then says "XYZ sell them for half your price" so the MD suggests he buys them from XYZ.

 

"Ahh - but XYZ don't have any in stock" says the customer, to which the MD replied "ours are half the price as well when we don't have any in stock".

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1 hour ago, BWM said:

One important thing to bear in mind if you manage to secure a mooring without full residential status is discretion, keep a low profile and stay under the radar. I've seen many problems develop due to people's behaviour - untidiness, dog mess left around, washing hung out, and so on. The discrete generally have few problems once established. 

This 100% and seem similar,  despite quiet chats suggesting to keep head down gob shut the behaviour continued.

 

Don't get me wrong if someone is abusing their position sometimes making a stand is required,  but most time live and let live

  • Greenie 1

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Just had a visit to one of the potential marinas.  They couldn't have been more helpful. 

 

The first question they asked is "are you going to be living aboard?".  I was honest and said yes.  They had no problem with this, just as they said by phone, so long as my main resedential address is somewhere other than the marina.  I just need to take the boat out at least once every 180 days and this resets the clock.  Getting Amazon parcels etc delivered to their office is no problem either.

 

Despite me saying I wouldn't be in a position to buy until later this year or early next they volunteered to show me around what was on brokerage and put me down on the mailing list for notification of new boats ahead of them being advertised on Apollo Duck etc.

 

I'd misunderstood how the prices work.  They show as £x for 50ft, £x for 60ft.  I wrongly assumed I'd pay somewhere in the middle for a 57ft.  I now understand that if I want a 57ft boat I pay the 60ft price as it referrs to the pontoon length!

 

I've come away really pleased.  Nice social scene and events, plus a couple of others who live aboard too there.

 

Just one more to visit, who've already advised they'll allow what I'm looking for, but there's some sort of public event on today so will visit next weekend when I can get a better feel for it.

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Don't assume that a farm mooring is devoid of power etc. Ours has power and water to each boat, metered, and facility for potty emptying and pump outs.

I use the address as our sole UK address and have no hassle at all, get mail, deliveries, register credit cards, and driving licence etc.

Priced per usual size of boat, we have from 46' to 70' on off side of canal.

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3 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Don't assume that a farm mooring is devoid of power etc. Ours has power and water to each boat, metered, and facility for potty emptying and pump outs.

I use the address as our sole UK address and have no hassle at all, get mail, deliveries, register credit cards, and driving licence etc.

Priced per usual size of boat, we have from 46' to 70' on off side of canal.

Any spaces? He said he was looking at Barbridge.

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10 minutes ago, NB DW said:

Great, thanks.

 

I'm needing decent access to J16 of the M6 so was looking around the Nantwich area.

 

 

I sent you a Personal Message in the forum messages box.

Sam.

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4 hours ago, NB DW said:

Thank you.

 

I'm hoping for a bit of a loophole like the one mentioned in your contract which allows me to stay there so long as I take the boat out once a month.  That'd be my intention anyhow.  I don't think I could stay permanently moored up without ever moving!

 

I wouldn't have any bills in my name which correspond to my rented out home, other than my mortgage, as utilities etc would go under the name of whoever rents it.  I've an unsecured loan though which shows the address if that'd be passable too.

The issue comes if you supply copies of such bills as 'proof' that you have a main residence elsewhere when you do not. That's fraud!

 

Of course there are plenty of things that one can 'get away with' for a long time but they do have a habit of going wrong when you can least afford it.

 

By all means get the most out of the Terms and Conditions to which you agree.

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Reminds me of my old 'boss'.

 

Customer phones the sales office and asks for a price for some components, the sales girl give him the price and he 'explodes' "how much ? that's ridiculous I want to speak to your MD".

 

Gets put through to the MD, who gives him the same price, the customer then says "XYZ sell them for half your price" so the MD suggests he buys them from XYZ.

 

"Ahh - but XYZ don't have any in stock" says the customer, to which the MD replied "ours are half the price as well when we don't have any in stock".

I've used the same story for a long time but with two village shops and caulifowers!

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21 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The issue comes if you supply copies of such bills as 'proof' that you have a main residence elsewhere when you do not. That's fraud!

 

Of course there are plenty of things that one can 'get away with' for a long time but they do have a habit of going wrong when you can least afford it.

 

By all means get the most out of the Terms and Conditions to which you agree.

I've used the same story for a long time but with two village shops and caulifowers!

Just out of interest, who would I be defrauding?  I did explain to those I've spoken to that I intend on letting my home and they were happy with that.  Just so long as I don't use their address for anything other than the odd parcel delivery.

 

Edited:  I see what you mean now, i.e. applying for a loan/mortgage etc in the future and using my let-out address as a main residence.

 

And supposing at the time of agreeing a mooring my house wasn't let, it'd still be my main residency.  It just might so happen it gets let afterwards..

Edited by NB DW

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6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Prevaricate too long and it may not be there when you want it.

 

Just go for it before they fill up or change their mind.

 

I don't think the OP is prevaricating at all.  In fact he is being painfully honest.

  • Greenie 1

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