Planar heaters

[Jamiebrookes]

As anyone fitted and used a planar heater. Just wondered if I could gain any information about them reliability, spares, noise levels etc are they better than webasto or Espacher. Thanks

[MtB]

7 hours ago, Jamiebrookes said:

As anyone fitted and used a planar heater. Just wondered if I could gain any information about them reliability, spares, noise levels etc are they better than webasto or Espacher. Thanks

 

Plenty about them in old threads if you have a search.

 

 

 

[Jamiebrookes]

Thanks

[Rob99fla]

Hi. I’ve just fitted a Planar Binar 5S-12TM to replace an old failing Mikuni MX40. The old pipe work was all 15mm so I’ve replaced in 22mm from the heater to where it splits to the fin rad and calorifier circuit. I’ve also fitted the expansion tank as 2 pipe tank on the return. I got this idea from an Eberspacher guy, Peter Collard. This is the link giving good tips on heating design for boats (https://www.canalboat.co.uk/canal-boats/maintenance/how-to-make-sure-your-narrowboat-is-heating-up-properly-1-4822255) Anyway, back to the Planar Binar 5S. It started up fine once the fuel comes up the line from the pump. The heater is modern and quiet compared to the old Mikuni MX40. The fuel pump is a bit loud, especially at 7am when ou r boat is silent as we sleep. It sort of thumps at first until it gets going. I might sound proof if a bit. You can buy a new silent pump. If you buy the kit, I would specify this addition. The heater is very well built and looks very solid. Also, it requires no servicing except being run for 30 minutes every week or so. Finally, the spares are far cheaper than the Mikuni MX40 and I suspect Webasto or Eberspacher too. Am I happy. I should say so. It cost £650 including every bit you might need to install plus I bought the Smartphone modem for £99 so I can control from my phone using their app. See my pics of heater installed. PS I’ve now changed the water pump to the return pipe on advice from Planar Heaters Uk and now fitted copper fuel pipe in case any eagle eyed points out I’ve used nylon pipe

Edited September 20, 2019 by Rob99fla

[mick55]

I have installed eight of these units, they are extremely good if fitted correctly, looks like you took the advice on board, lag the rest of the exhaust, this will keep the exhaust system compliant with BSS regs.

[Rob99fla]

57 minutes ago, mick55 said:

I have installed eight of these units, they are extremely good if fitted correctly, looks like you took the advice on board, lag the rest of the exhaust, this will keep the exhaust system compliant with BSS regs.

Yes, its working well. I have fitted a heat shield to cover the top of the exhaust now as its close to the piece of flooring. Might put a bit more lagging in time for BSS check next July

[mick55]

Picture of the one I installed this week

[Awayonmyboat]

Restarting an old thread. 

 

Anyone got long-term feedback / user experience with these Planar 5kW units? My 15 year old Webasto Thermotop C needs replacing and I'm looking at this as an option (it is roughly half the cost of the equivalent Webasto unit).

 

I'm particularly interested in reliability in use, noise levels and unexpected issues. Thanks in advance.

[Samp94]

On 09/02/2023 at 18:58, Awayonmyboat said:

Restarting an old thread. 

 

Anyone got long-term feedback / user experience with these Planar 5kW units? My 15 year old Webasto Thermotop C needs replacing and I'm looking at this as an option (it is roughly half the cost of the equivalent Webasto unit).

 

I'm particularly interested in reliability in use, noise levels and unexpected issues. Thanks in advance.

not quite long term but 6 months trouble free of daily running so far. cant fault it 

[PNB116]

I have one (They are called Autoterm now) and it has worked well. I have had one issue but that was resolved with a free replacement. They have a 3 year guarantee. There is excellent support and advice from their Facebook group page. They only need to be run once a month for 30 minutes when not in use. The Comfort controller (human interface device) is excellent, runs up to 3 programs a day and can run in thermostat mode, will remind you when you need to run it. 
highly recommended. Much, much quieter than the Alde heater that it replaced

Edited February 18, 2023 by PNB116

[Awayonmyboat]

Thanks for the feedback. It's good for the positive comments since I took the plunge earlier in the week and bought one. Fitted it yesterday and first impressions are positive. It fitted in easily in place of the failed Webasto (uses exactly the same mounting bolt holes and was relatively easy to adapt all the connections) and appears to work well. 

 

The only problem in having at the moment is with the controller in that I can't access the thermostat function. It could be my lack of familiarity but if I don't succeed over the weekend I'll contact Autoterm and see what they say.

[MtB]

On 20/09/2019 at 21:36, Rob99fla said:

 

 

 

 

Please bear in mind this type of exhaust installation inside a boat is no longer considered safe. 

 

Firstly because this format of silencer usually has a condensate drain hole opposite the fixing bolt hole which emits exhaust gas all the time the unit is running. Although in this case it is hard to see the lower, opposite edge properly as it is in darkness. Also the two halves (metal pressings) are usually only spot welded together, which allows more exhaust gas to leak through the perimeter joint between the two halves into the boat. (In this case this particular silencer might have the edges also seam welded although again, it's hard to see. New ones these days generally don't.) These two factors mean this silencer is unsuitable for fitting inside the boat as in the photo as the silencer continuously leaks exhaust gas into the boat cabin. Not so much a problem if fitted into the engine bay of a cruiser stern but it's hard to tell from the photo. Bottom line is this style of silencer needs fitting outside, not in the boat cabin.

 

Secondly those exhaust clamps don't exert much pressure and the pipe can usually be easily pulled off the exhaust silencer spigot even after tightening up the bolt. This suggests to me they are prone to falling off in use. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by MtB
Add a bit.

[Rob99fla]

It’s my boat. The silencer is welded at the edges. There is no drain hole. The clamps don’t leak exhaust gasses. The silencer is in the engine bay. A top technician from Autoterm visited the installation as the heaters were in their infancy in 2019. He was complimentary about the standard. The boat safety inspector inspected the installation at the last safety check and was very happy. I’ve never seen a narrowboat with the silencer mounted externally either. We run the heater everyday and I there is no exhaust leaking from anywhere except outside the skin fitting. The boats diesel engine silencer is in the same engine bay space so you suggest this silencer is moved to the outside of the boat too? So, it’s probably best to mind your own business and concentrate on your own boat (if you have one!)

[Rob99fla]

1 hour ago, Awayonmyboat said:

Thanks for the feedback. It's good for the positive comments since I took the plunge earlier in the week and bought one. Fitted it yesterday and first impressions are positive. It fitted in easily in place of the failed Webasto (uses exactly the same mounting bolt holes and was relatively easy to adapt all the connections) and appears to work well. 

 

The only problem in having at the moment is with the controller in that I can't access the thermostat function. It could be my lack of familiarity but if I don't succeed over the weekend I'll contact Autoterm and see what they say.

Mines been fitted in 2019. Not a single problem in all this time. Brilliantly piece of kit. If I can help, let me know 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Rob99fla said:

The boats diesel engine silencer is in the same engine bay space so you suggest this silencer is moved to the outside of the boat too?

 

No, the suggestion is to use the correct 'marine silencer' that is made for the job - not some bodged up automotive silencer where the design allows the condensate (and gasses) to drop out beneath the vehicle.

 

(By the way) I think you are correct MtB doesn't have A boat.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, Rob99fla said:

I’ve never seen a narrowboat with the silencer mounted externally either.

 

I would have thought that anyone reading MtB's post in context would understand that he was talking about external to the accommodation because of the dangers of CO leakage from many of the silencers that have been supplied over the years. However, I would not install one of the leaky silencers in a cruiser stern narrowboat unless I were sure that there were adequate engine bay vents located below the lowest access to the accommodation. Even then, as CO tends to float about in the air I would not want to do it.

[Rob99fla]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I would have thought that anyone reading MtB's post in context would understand that he was talking about external to the accommodation because of the dangers of CO leakage from many of the silencers that have been supplied over the years. However, I would not install one of the leaky silencers in a cruiser stern narrowboat unless I were sure that there were adequate engine bay vents located below the lowest access to the accommodation. Even then, as CO tends to float about in the air I would not want to do it.

It wasn’t very clear what it meant. He made assumptions the heater and exhaust is in the accommodation area. It’s not. Also, it does not leak exhaust gasses

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, Rob99fla said:

It wasn’t very clear what it meant. He made assumptions the heater and exhaust is in the accommodation area. It’s not. Also, it does not leak exhaust gasses

 

 

No I didn't. I just pointed out an installation like yours (but not yours specifically) is not generally considered suitable for inside a boat. No-one knew where yours is until yours explained.

 

Outside under a cruiser stern is less of a problem although for anyone picky about getting CO poisoning might as Tony points out, still have reservations.

 

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Rob99fla said:

It wasn’t very clear what it meant. He made assumptions the heater and exhaust is in the accommodation area. It’s not. Also, it does not leak exhaust gasses

I think you're being a bit touchy here. Mike's advice wasn't aimed at you but at others who might read this thread now or in future. The standard silencer supplied with most of these heaters is intended to be fitted under a vehicle, where it is fine, but it is not suitable for use on a boat. It seems your has been modified to make it safe and it has performed safely. But anyone installing from scratch would be well advised to fit the proper marine silencer. I don't have the link to hand but its been given on the forum several times before, and a search of the forum should find it.

[Tony Brooks]

And I think the marine silencer has provision for condensation drainage via a U bend tube. I fear the one illustrated does not, so might be subject to corrosion holing from the inside out because it does not look like stainless steel to me.

[Peanut]

I understand that it is the cheap Chinese heaters that come with inadequate fittings that leak, and you are advised to throw them away and purchase proper ones if you go down that route.  The Planar/Autoterm heaters are supplied with better fitting, but at five times the price.

Though, Tony may be right about the risk of internal corrosion.

[Awayonmyboat]

The Autoterm silencer supplied with my unit last week is stainless steel, has no condensate drain hole and is fully welded around the edge. I would have no qualms using it even though I didn't as it was easier to connect to the existing silencer used by the Webasto. The Autoterm silencer however does look very similar to the cheap and problematical units MtB refers

 

Regarding the loose fit of the pipes I would agree with this comment. However Autoterm do address this in their instructions and tell you how to resolve it.

[Bobbybass]

On 18/02/2023 at 11:49, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No, the suggestion is to use the correct 'marine silencer' that is made for the job - not some bodged up automotive silencer where the design allows the condensate (and gasses) to drop out beneath the vehicle.

 

(By the way) I think you are correct MtB doesn't have A boat.

I had a silencer similar to the photo. If you cover the outlet with your hand and blow into it....it should hold pressure. Although mine looked continuous welded it leaked badly.

 

I obtained a tubular stainless silencer to be on the safe side. 

 

I'm sure the BSS inspection would fail this... maybe....🤔

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, Bobbybass said:

I had a silencer similar to the photo. If you cover the outlet with your hand and blow into it....it should hold pressure. Although mine looked continuous welded it leaked badly.

 

I obtained a tubular stainless silencer to be on the safe side. 

 

I'm sure the BSS inspection would fail this... maybe....🤔

no the BSS inspector would not see it because you should have lagged it 

[Bobbybass]

That's why I said......maybe....😃