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2019 Council tax on liveaboards


Saraj

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12 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

What's the difference between defence and protection?

Defence is Army,Navy and Airforce while proctection is Mi5 Mi6, GCHQ, Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) , National Crime Agency and Border Agency.

 

Edited by nbfiresprite
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3 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

Defence is Army,Navy and Airforce while proctection is Mi5 Mi6, GCHQ, Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) , National Crime Agency and Border Agency.

 

hard to believe that those relatively small agencies cost 60% of what our wonderful armed forces cost.  something wrong somewhere.

17 hours ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

We pay Band A Council Tax on our Res Mooring. However, we do have a full street address, post code and letter-box so the Council treat us like any other house. I don't see how you could be invoiced for Council  Tax without a bona fide postal address ?

nice to see a post that actually addresses the subject of this thread.   :clapping:

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23 hours ago, Murflynn said:

 

nice to see a post that actually addresses the subject of this thread. 

   :clapping:

On a related topic.

Do you Marina types pay VAT on your mooring charge? Reason I ask is because our moorings are owned by the Council and we are charged VAT. When this was queried, they reckoned that we aren't renting the mooring (like a Council tenant who doesn't pay VAT on rent) but are paying a licence fee to use the mooring so VAT is added. Bit of a swindle if you ask me but there it is. How about you guys?

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5 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

On a related topic.

Do you Marina types pay VAT on your mooring charge? Reason I ask is because our moorings are owned by the Council and we are charged VAT. When this was queried, they reckoned that we aren't renting the mooring (like a Council tenant who doesn't pay VAT on rent) but are paying a licence fee to use the mooring so VAT is added. Bit of a swindle if you ask me but there it is. How about you guys?

hmm ....    might be worth asking them if you can see their VAT accounts under the Freedom of Information Act.  :unsure:

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14 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

hmm ....    might be worth asking them if you can see their VAT accounts under the Freedom of Information Act.  :unsure:

I'm not convinced that that would get down to the level you require.

 

My company accounts will simply show income excluding VAT (which is how accounts are prepared)

You MAY possibly get VAT paid and VAT re-funded but unlikely.

 

It would be better to simply ask HMRCE if VAT is payable on moorings.

 

Certainly my BWML mooring invoice does not show VAT separately. It may be an 'all inclusive' price.

 

 

Edit to add :

 

HMRC guidance on VAT on Moorings says that unless you are a qualifying residential ship then VAT is payable at the standard rate.

 

https://www.pla.co.uk/assets/vatflowchartformooringfacilities.pdf

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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That flow diagram confirms that even though our boat is our permanent residence, we are not tax exempt as the boat is designed for recreation/pleasure (or is it? we've redesigned it as our residence although it can still be used for leisure etc).

Seems a grey area to me.

Thanks for the diagram Alan 

Edited by Stephen Jeavons
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54 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

That flow diagram confirms that even though our boat is our permanent residence, we are not tax exempt as the boat is designed for recreation/pleasure (or is it? we've redesigned it as our residence although it can still be used for leisure etc).

Seems a grey area to me.

Thanks for the diagram Alan 

It is only VAT exempt if it FULLY complies with one of these categories (with the legal definition - not someones idea it complies)

 

1) Is a houseboat (not just a boat that is lived on)

2) A qualifying ship (size and weight) and very, very few widebeams will comply and no narrowboats can meet the requirements

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is only VAT exempt if it FULLY complies with one of these categories (with the legal definition - not someones idea it complies)

 

1) Is a houseboat (not just a boat that is lived on)

2) A qualifying ship (size and weight) and very, very few widebeams will comply and no narrowboats can meet the requirements

So you lot are all paying VAT?

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On 13/09/2019 at 12:52, Stephen Jeavons said:

That flow diagram confirms that even though our boat is our permanent residence, we are not tax exempt as the boat is designed for recreation/pleasure (or is it? we've redesigned it as our residence although it can still be used for leisure etc).

Seems a grey area to me.

Thanks for the diagram Alan 

If you have an engine then it is not qualifying for Zero rated VAT

 

Unless it is a 'qualifying ship' of greater than 15 tonnes (that is not 15 tonnes weight, it is 15 tonnes 'volume' then you pay VAT

 

http://www.articles.scopulus.co.uk/HM Revenue and Customs Brief 38/09.htm

 

 

Read section 2:11 how to calculate tonnage of a narrowboat

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ships-aircraft-and-associated-services-notice-744c

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Yep! I have no argument with the fact that I should be paying VAT based on all the HM references. I'm more curious as to why others may not be. Probably hidden in the charges somewhere although I would have thought it should be clear on mooring invoices. i.e. a line item VAT = ........

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31 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

...I would have thought it should be clear on mooring invoices. i.e. a line item VAT = ........

Agreed.

 

Although if a mooring provider should have been charging VAT but hasn't, it shouldn't affect boaters directly.  If/when HMRC catches up with them, the provider would still have to pay the VAT - and probably the past mooring receipts would then be deemed VAT inclusive, so they would have to pay over one sixth of receipts going back some years.  (Which could of course lead to bankruptcy, and some indirect disruption!)

 

Some very small providers might not need to be VAT registered.

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1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Agreed.

 

Although if a mooring provider should have been charging VAT but hasn't, it shouldn't affect boaters directly.  If/when HMRC catches up with them, the provider would still have to pay the VAT - and probably the past mooring receipts would then be deemed VAT inclusive, so they would have to pay over one sixth of receipts going back some years.  (Which could of course lead to bankruptcy, and some indirect disruption!)

 

Some very small providers might not need to be VAT registered.

Exemption limits is, I think, £85K so a small place with, say, 25 berths charged at, say, £3K per year, and only minimal other trade would not have to charge VAT.

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3 hours ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

I would have thought it should be clear on mooring invoices. i.e. a line item VAT = ........

 

Only required on a B to B transaction.

On a B to C it is not required.

 

If you go into M&S and buy a new jumper you do not get a VAT invoice

If you fill up your car with petrol, you may be asked "do you need a VAT invoice" ?

If your lady-friend goes into Boots to buy some 'ladies thingies' she does not get a VAT invoice

 

And yet all of these are subject to VAT at 20%

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Only required on a B to B transaction.

On a B to C it is not required....

Thanks - I didn't realise that

55 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you fill up your car with petrol, you may be asked "do you need a VAT invoice" ? ...

True, but although I always say "No", the credit card receipt nearly always still details the VAT amount.

 

I would still have thought it is generally in a business's interests to itemise the VAT - if only so that the buyer realises that the business isn't getting the whole payment, so the price might be more reasonable that it at first seems.

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