2019 Council tax on liveaboards

[Saraj]

I am wondering how the council charges tax to liveaboards - if the owner of a mooring rents out and  they provide amenities pump out, water, rubbish, recycling ( or taking it to the local supermarket) electric, Elsan , parking etc . They presumably have private companies collecting the waste, pay extra on their water meter etc Likewise the River License with CRT provides all these amenities bar recycling which to me is the ‘council tax’ with the added bonus for them of only having to collect from particular sites- not collecting from bins etc outside of each boat along the canal paths.

 

This rent paid and River License paid for by the liveaboard covers all of the above , please tell me what the council is providing that is justifiable to give another charge?

 

When living in a house rubbish and recycling  is collected from the driveway, local recycling sites are only available for local residents with passes there is street lighting, pavements which have to be kept in good condition, trees pruned, gutters swept and unblocked, salt is put down when icy and so on....

What I don’t understand is the thread, it’s not, not wanting to pay what is just and fair, but simply exactly what are we paying to whom and for what?

 

Ccs use amenities

Residential use amenities

Permanent use amenities

Leisure use amenities

 

CRT provide amenities and charge River License

Marinas provide amenities and charge their going rates

Private and CRT charge for land moorings, and space on the water and River License

 

I am probably repeating a lot of people - but surely the Local Councils charge CRT and Marinas and landowners Council Tax already covering what liveaboards pay in rents and licenses!

 

Help, I must be missing a point somewhere?.

[zenataomm]

From The BBC ….

 

What does council tax pay for?

Local services such as planning,

transport,

highways,

police,

fire,

libraries,

leisure and recreation, 

pavements,

street lighting,

street litter bins

street cleaning teams

election and polling facilities

contributions towards education

car parks

 

The list is not exhaustive, nor is it applicable to every local authority,

Also none of the above is provided by a Waterways Boat Licence.

[Saraj]

Thankyou for elaborating, it’s good to get the whole picture rather than individual ‘battles’ - it appears to lie with which perspective one comes from and understanding the system with exactly what is open for use, however, on the waterways it is hard work one has to be bothered, it’s a bit 50/50 me thinks ?

[Mike on the Wey]

I am sure that all itinerant residents of boroughs would be charged council tax if there was a mechanism to so charge them.

 

That includes continuous cruisers both "full system" and "20.5 miles", sofa surfers, caravanners (of all ethnic/minority/cultural backgrounds), people who live in vans, squatters and possibly even short-term visitors such as holidaymakers.

 

They all use the aforementioned amenities and services, but don't pay CT because the legislation is based on linking people to specific patches of land - usually with a fixed dwelling built on it, sometimes not. 

[David Schweizer]

9 hours ago, zenataomm said:

From The BBC ….

 

What does council tax pay for?

Local services such as planning,

transport,

highways,

police,

fire,

libraries,

leisure and recreation, 

pavements,

street lighting,

street litter bins

street cleaning teams

election and polling facilities

contributions towards education

car parks

 

The list is not exhaustive, nor is it applicable to every local authority,

Also none of the above is provided by a Waterways Boat Licence.

You have ommited the two most expensive services ( not provided by C&RT) which can account for up 75% of all Coucil expenditure - Education and Social Services. The OP also needs to understand that everyone pays the same level of Council tax, regardless of how much, or how little use, is made of any of the Council services> I make no use of Eductiaon or Social Services but pay exactly the same as someone who does. It is called Collective Resposibility.

 

 

[Laurie Booth]

1 minute ago, David Schweizer said:

You have ommited the two most expensive services ( not provided by C&RT) which can account for up 75% of all Coucil expenditure - Education and Social Services. The OP also needs to understand that everyone pays the same level of Council tax, regardless of how much, or how little use, is made of any of the Council services> I make no use of Eductiaon or Social Services but pay exactly the same as someone who does. It is called Collective Resposibility.

 

 

And the armed services

[David Schweizer]

5 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

And the armed services

AFAIK the Armed Services are funded through National Government Taxes not Local Council Tax.

[KevMc]

42 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

You have ommited the two most expensive services ( not provided by C&RT) which can account for up 75% of all Coucil expenditure - Education and Social Services. The OP also needs to understand that everyone pays the same level of Council tax, regardless of how much, or how little use, is made of any of the Council services> I make no use of Eductiaon or Social Services but pay exactly the same as someone who does. It is called Collective Resposibility.

 

 

Nope that isn't quite true ..... properties are taxed based on their value at a fixed point in the past ..... then the tax may be reduced (by 25% I think) if there is only one adult living there. So if I live in a terraced house on my own I pay 75% of the council tax, if there are 4 adults living next door, they each pay 25% of the tax on the property. Where is the justice in that ?

[David Schweizer]

29 minutes ago, KevMc said:

Nope that isn't quite true ..... properties are taxed based on their value at a fixed point in the past ..... then the tax may be reduced (by 25% I think) if there is only one adult living there. So if I live in a terraced house on my own I pay 75% of the council tax, if there are 4 adults living next door, they each pay 25% of the tax on the property. Where is the justice in that ?

What I stated is correct. However, in order to not overcomplicating the issue, I did not include the consideration of concessions or Council Tax banding, or a whole raft of other excemptions which may be applied by any individyual Rating Authority.

[carlt]

35 minutes ago, KevMc said:

.So if I live in a terraced house on my own I pay 75% of the council tax, if there are 4 adults living next door, they each pay 25% of the tax on the property. Where is the justice in that ?

 

Have you tried Tinder? 

[AndrewIC]

40 minutes ago, KevMc said:

Nope that isn't quite true ..... properties are taxed based on their value at a fixed point in the past ..... then the tax may be reduced (by 25% I think) if there is only one adult living there. So if I live in a terraced house on my own I pay 75% of the council tax, if there are 4 adults living next door, they each pay 25% of the tax on the property. Where is the justice in that ?

Last time we tried evening that out there were riots in the streets.

[Laurie Booth]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

AFAIK the Armed Services are funded through National Government Taxes not Local Council Tax.

Same pot

[David Schweizer]

22 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

Same pot

No it Isn't. Some people pay Income Tax, some people pay Local Council Tax, many people pay both, and some pay neither. Council Tax is charged against the owner/occupier of a property based upon the Ratable Value of that property. The revenue is allocated to services within a defined local Authority Area. Government income is aquired through National Taxation such as Income Tax, VAT, Fuel Tax etc. and the bulk of that revenue is allocate against National Expenditure, one of Which is Dfence. A small (and it is very small) proportion of Natioanl Income is allocated to local Authotiies as Rates support grant, but that has been reduced substabtially over the past ten years.

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by David Schweizer

[Momac]

13 hours ago, Saraj said:

 

Help, I must be missing a point somewhere?.

Think of it of a way of paying back  for the education you presumably had . As previously mentioned it is probably the most valuable  thing you received free of charge.

1 hour ago, KevMc said:

So if I live in a terraced house on my own I pay 75% of the council tax, if there are 4 adults living next door, they each pay 25% of the tax on the property. Where is the justice in that ?

The law often isn't fair .. but its the law .

 In the house with 4 adults I dare say one person pays .. the others may or may not contribute.

If you wish to pay less per person you are not obliged to live alone.

[doratheexplorer]

2 hours ago, KevMc said:

Nope that isn't quite true ..... properties are taxed based on their value at a fixed point in the past ..... then the tax may be reduced (by 25% I think) if there is only one adult living there. So if I live in a terraced house on my own I pay 75% of the council tax, if there are 4 adults living next door, they each pay 25% of the tax on the property. Where is the justice in that ?

It's actually very sensible.  We should be incentivised to share property and not take up so much space.

1 hour ago, AndrewIC said:

Last time we tried evening that out there were riots in the streets.

rightly so

[KevMc]

10 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

It's actually very sensible.  We should be incentivised to share property and not take up so much space.

 

That is a different subject altogether ... if all we are doing is trying to reduce our impact then we should be forced to live in communal accommodation with shared facilities, but as I say its a different topic.

25 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 In the house with 4 adults I dare say one person pays .. the others may or may not contribute.

If you wish to pay less per person you are not obliged to live alone.

If I had 3 other adults living in a house with me I'd be pretty keen to ensure they paid their share ..... why should they got off paying towards communal expenses just because they live with someone else?

 

I might not be able to find someone willing to live with me.

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, KevMc said:

 I'd be pretty keen to ensure they paid their share ..... why should they got off paying towards communal expenses just because they live with someone else?

 

Well they might well pay their share but I doubt the council would issue individual  invoices

The other adults may not pay if you choose not to charge them - perhaps relatives for example.

[doratheexplorer]

24 minutes ago, KevMc said:

That is a different subject altogether ... if all we are doing is trying to reduce our impact then we should be forced to live in communal accommodation with shared facilities, but as I say its a different topic.

 

No it isn't.  All taxation is (or should be) predicated on incentivising good things and disincentivising bad things.  Council Tax is no exception.

 

26 minutes ago, KevMc said:

That is a different subject altogether ... if all we are doing is trying to reduce our impact then we should be forced to live in communal accommodation with shared facilities, but as I say its a different topic.

If I had 3 other adults living in a house with me I'd be pretty keen to ensure they paid their share ..... why should they got off paying towards communal expenses just because they live with someone else?

 

I might not be able to find someone willing to live with me.

I can't think why! ?

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

It's actually very sensible.  We should be incentivised to share property and not take up so much space.

rightly so

 

I used to work with a guy who was always telling people "If you aren't living on the edge, you are taking up too much space".

 

He got really annoyed with me when I pointed out that, at 22 stone, he weighted twice as much as me, and therefore must have been taking up more space! ?

[Laurie Booth]

On 02/09/2019 at 12:47, David Schweizer said:

No it Isn't. Some people pay Income Tax, some people pay Local Council Tax, many people pay both, and some pay neither. Council Tax is charged against the owner/occupier of a property based upon the Ratable Value of that property. The revenue is allocated to services within a defined local Authority Area. Government income is aquired through National Taxation such as Income Tax, VAT, Fuel Tax etc. and the bulk of that revenue is allocate against National Expenditure, one of Which is Dfence. A small (and it is very small) proportion of Natioanl Income is allocated to local Authotiies as Rates support grant, but that has been reduced substabtially over the past ten years.

 

 

 

Same pot, goes to government, to miss use as they please.

[nbfiresprite]

Total Central Government spend, otherwise know as where has all the cash gone?

 

Pensions £161.1 billion
Health Care £162billion
Education £91.8 billion
Defence £50.3 billion
Welfare £126.3 billion
Protection £33.3billion
Transportation £34.7 billion
Gen. Government £16.9 billion
Other Spending £117.9 billion
Interest £51.7 billion

Total £847.6 billion

We are spending £139 million pounds per day just on paying interest on loans!

 

 https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/

[Laurie Booth]

5 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

Total Central Government spend, otherwise know as where has all the cash gone?

 

Pensions £161.1 billion
Health Care £162billion
Education £91.8 billion
Defence £50.3 billion
Welfare £126.3 billion
Protection £33.3billion
Transportation £34.7 billion
Gen. Government £16.9 billion
Other Spending £117.9 billion
Interest £51.7 billion

Total £847.6 billion

We are spending £139 million pounds per day just on paying interest on loans!

 

 https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/

Trust the government to use a pay day loan company,

[Stephen Jeavons]

We pay Band A Council Tax on our Res Mooring. However, we do have a full street address, post code and letter-box so the Council treat us like any other house. I don't see how you could be invoiced for Council  Tax without a bona fide postal address ?

Edited September 11, 2019 by Stephen Jeavons

[doratheexplorer]

On 09/09/2019 at 23:29, nbfiresprite said:

Total Central Government spend, otherwise know as where has all the cash gone?

 

Pensions £161.1 billion
Health Care £162billion
Education £91.8 billion
Defence £50.3 billion
Welfare £126.3 billion
Protection £33.3billion
Transportation £34.7 billion
Gen. Government £16.9 billion
Other Spending £117.9 billion
Interest £51.7 billion

Total £847.6 billion

We are spending £139 million pounds per day just on paying interest on loans!

 

 https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/

What's the difference between defence and protection?

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

What's the difference between defence and protection?

17