6/6/3 plating - too thin?

[Hippy Steve]

Hello lovely people, we are starting to look for our first live-aboard and saw  this boat. It ticks lots of boxes, the price allows for modifications so it's on the list.

My concern is the plate thicknesses... 6mm bottom and 3mm top appear very thin to this novice, even with the epoxy coating. 

Is this an issue?

 

 

[Rickent]

My boat is 6/5/3 and was built in 1981, at survey the hull thickness in the thinnest part was 4.8mm and baseplate was 5.7mm if I remember correctly, most boats made in 70s and 80s were built to those thicknesses. Springers were built even lighter.

Providing the boat has been looked after, there should be no problems.

[Stilllearning]

Apart from needing to fit a stove, then take out the Alde gas central heating, the rest seems fine. The first boat I used was  jilt by Brummegem boats, and it was a lovely little boat. The first boat I bought was in 6/5/3 and when sold about 10 years later was still perfect.

Take it out for a test run and make sure the engine, gearbox and electrics seem ok, then make a cheeky offer.

[Rickent]

2 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Apart from needing to fit a stove, then take out the Alde gas central heating, the rest seems fine. The first boat I used was  jilt by Brummegem boats, and it was a lovely little boat. The first boat I bought was in 6/5/3 and when sold about 10 years later was still perfect.

Take it out for a test run and make sure the engine, gearbox and electrics seem ok, then make a cheeky offer.

I agree with the stove fitting, but if the Alde is working ok then why remove it, yes , they are very heavy on gas, I know this as I have one but as back up heating and for heating water they are fine.

[Stilllearning]

Just now, Rickent said:

I agree with the stove fitting, but if the Alde is working ok then why remove it, yes , they are very heavy on gas, I know this as I have one but as back up heating and for heating water they are fine.

I take your point. Wait till it breaks down, then remove it.

[MtB]

40 minutes ago, Hippy Steve said:

Hello lovely people, we are starting to look for our first live-aboard and saw  this boat. It ticks lots of boxes, the price allows for modifications so it's on the list.

My concern is the plate thicknesses... 6mm bottom and 3mm top appear very thin to this novice, even with the epoxy coating. 

Is this an issue?

 

 

 

Yes it IS an issue, insofar as nowadays boats are built from thicker steel and people worry about thinner steel like this, meaning the boat will be less saleable and therefore lower in value than had it been say 10/6/4.

 

This is a double-edged sword obviously, as you will have trouble selling it when the day comes, just as the current sellers probably are. 

 

 

 

 

[koukouvagia]

It's not the original thickness that is crucial, it's the state of the steel after 40 years.  What does the recent survey have to say about this?

[Laurie Booth]

32 minutes ago, Rickent said:

My boat is 6/5/3 and was built in 1981, at survey the hull thickness in the thinnest part was 4.8mm and baseplate was 5.7mm if I remember correctly, most boats made in 70s and 80s were built to those thicknesses. Springers were built even lighter.

Providing the boat has been looked after, there should be no problems.

Not all Springers

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

It's not the original thickness that is crucial, it's the state of the steel after 40 years.  What does the recent survey have to say about this?

 

Clearly true, but buyers still worry about low original build plate thicknesses, the OP being a good example. ISTR the member here "Junior" agonising about whether to buy a boat with a 6mm baseplate. He bought the boat cheaply due to the 'thin' baseplate and used it without issue for a number of years.

 

 

A boat built from thin plate but still in good condition can easily turn out to be a bargain due to this effect.

 

[rusty69]

40 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Clearly true, but buyers still worry about low original build plate thicknesses, the OP being a good example. ISTR the member here "Junior" agonising about whether to buy a boat with a 6mm baseplate. He bought the boat cheaply due to the 'thin' baseplate and used it without issue for a number of years.

 

 

A boat built from thin plate but still in good condition can easily turn out to be a bargain due to this effect.

 

Bought ours 2nd hand 20 years ago with 'thin' plate cos we was young, carefree.... And CWDF didn't exist. 

 

The current plan is to wait another 50 years, just as its about to sink, and use it as a viking burial vessel. We will get it towed out into the North Sea and set adrift. 

 

(just hope we are both dead at the time) 

[matty40s]

Looks OK from pictures, simple boat, possibly ex hire.

My concern is that it's been on sale since March and has had a survey in August.....meaning someone has just walked away from buying it. 

You need to find out why, and if the survey highlights why the boat was epoxied in 2016.

[MtB]

17 minutes ago, matty40s said:

My concern is that it's been on sale since March and has had a survey in August.....meaning someone has just walked away from buying it. 

 

Not necessarily. The seller might have had the survey done to allay the fears of buyers about the 'thin' plate. 

 

Is there a link to this boat sale? I can't see one anywhere.

 

 

[Murflynn]

26 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

Is there a link to this boat sale? I can't see one anywhere.

 

 

they're hiding it from you just to create controversy Mike.

[Neil2]

We've been here many times, nothing inherently wrong with the "thin" plating it just means any pitting has to be taken a bit more seriously.  You need someone who knows what they are doing to have a good look at the hull. (Not necessarily a surveyor). 

 

Insurance will be an issue - check out the requirements of various companies most have some restrictions/requirements for boats over 30 years old.

 

FWIW if you don't know much about engines I would have that bmc 1.8 checked over by someone that does. But if it is smoking and or leaking oil, which is highly likely, I'd be factoring in the cost of a replacement or reconditioning. 

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not necessarily. The seller might have had the survey done to allay the fears of buyers about the 'thin' plate. 

 

Is there a link to this boat sale? I can't see one anywhere.

 

 

Its Whilton.

 

There is a link in the OPs original post.

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

The current plan is to wait another 50 years, just as its about to sink, and use it as a viking burial vessel. We will get it towed out into the North Sea and set adrift. 

 

(just hope we are both dead at the time)

If you are adrift in the North Sea and have set your boat on fire you soon will be!

[malp]

As a former shell builder I can tell you that 6/6/3 was pretty standard for that style of boat of that vintage.    Indeed 6mm is still pretty common for hull sides, base plates have got thicker to compensate for difficulty in painting effectively.   3mm cabin plating is perfectly adequate, the move to thicker plating is to do with trying to keep a flat finish, but its not structurally necessary.  As an aside a benefit of 3mm cabin plating is that it lowers slightly the boat's centre of gravity which helps a bit with stablility.  

 

I actually built some shells for Brum Boats around that time, but this was not one of them.  They didn't start building shells in house until around 1983, so this one would have been bought in, possibly from either Colecraft, or more likely R & D Fabrications.  

 

You need to try and get access to the August survey and see what that says about plate thickness, as loss through rusting (often internal) and also the amount of pitting need to be understood.  As matty40s points out he fact that it has just been surveyed, 5 months after listing, and it is still for sale needs looking into.  Was it the seller's survey or a potential buyer's?  If the former you should be able to get a sight of it.

[Tony Brooks]

Look on the Calcutt website at JennyB. Its 11 years newer, 1 foot longer but because of the design of the front has a larger accommodation area than 55 or 56ft boats. my survey states it is 12-6-4 and has it has not had any mains aboard is unlikely to have suffered much electrical hull corrosion. Blacked last autumn, fully equipped and ready to go. It has been a very reliable boat and as far as I can tell is in good condition. Advertised a litle more than the one in the link but there is a LITTLE room for negotiation.

 

http://www.calcuttboats.com/Jenny B1.pdf

 

Hope this is not contrary to the forum rules.

[Richard10002]

7 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

Apart from needing to fit a stove, then take out the Alde gas central heating, the rest seems fine. The first boat I used was  jilt by Brummegem boats, and it was a lovely little boat. The first boat I bought was in 6/5/3 and when sold about 10 years later was still perfect.

Take it out for a test run and make sure the engine, gearbox and electrics seem ok, then make a cheeky offer.

It’s got a stove in the middle room. Bliss I think?

 

The boat is probably owned by Whilton, and they probably commissioned the survey, rather than a sale having been agreed and walked away from. 

5 hours ago, matty40s said:

You need to find out why, and if the survey highlights why the boat was epoxied in 2016.

Given the talk here about the benefits of epoxy over normal blacking, why would it being epoxied raise a question? Surely it’s a good thing?

[matty40s]

8 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

It’s got a stove in the middle room. Bliss I think?

 

The boat is probably owned by Whilton, and they probably commissioned the survey, rather than a sale having been agreed and walked away from. 

Given the talk here about the benefits of epoxy over normal blacking, why would it being epoxied raise a question? Surely it’s a good thing?

Why would Whilton commision the survey almost 6 months after taking it on? When they buy boats off people to sell, they get the survey done there and then.

 

It depends what the epoxy is covering up.

 

The survey may be OK, but Steve needs to see it, and have someone who knows boats go through it with him if he doesnt have the experience or knowledge.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

Why would Whilton commision the survey almost 6 months after taking it on? When they buy boats off people to sell, they get the survey done there and then.

No idea. I just suggest it as a possibility.

 

I agree that anybody thinking of buying the boat would be stupid not to ask to see any survey offered.

 

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

 

It depends what the epoxy is covering up.

Surely you could say the same about any hull covering? Perhaps people here should be aware that, if they go to the trouble of epoxying their hull, rather than blacking it, suspicions will be raised when they come to sell.

 

I don’t disagree that it would always be good to know that the hull is good under whatever it is coated by.

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

 

The survey may be OK, but Steve needs to see it, and have someone who knows boats go through it with him if he doesnt have the experience or knowledge.

No disagreement here