Wiltshire canal boat family face eviction 'for not moving enough'

[AndrewIC]

4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I used the words I did deliberately as, in general, the boats people complain about are not the shiny or expensive overstayers, nor are they the ones likely to proliferate should CRT decide to stop their processes. But as these do appear to work this is unlikely to happen unless the economy's roof really falls in, in which case we'll all have a bit more to worry about than boats on the towpath.

I agree, many of the boats complained about are not shiny and probably not expensive. They may even be “crappy”. It does not necessarily follow that their inhabitants are “dossers”. Perusal of, for example, the London Boaters group on Facebook suggests that at least some are trying very hard to hold down a job.

 

But do those processes work? Is there evidence that turning “continuous moorers” into “reluctant cruisers” in fact reduces, or even stabilises their numbers. If all it does is reduce the rate of increase, the same end result is just delayed.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Murflynn said:

 

perhaps if they had tried to get a mooring 14 years ago they would not be in the present pickle.

Or perhaps if they had tried the trip towards Bristol a few times in the last 2-3 years since CRT flagged their insufficient movement they would not be in the present pickle.

[Arthur Marshall]

58 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

I agree, many of the boats complained about are not shiny and probably not expensive. They may even be “crappy”. It does not necessarily follow that their inhabitants are “dossers”. Perusal of, for example, the London Boaters group on Facebook suggests that at least some are trying very hard to hold down a job.

 

But do those processes work? Is there evidence that turning “continuous moorers” into “reluctant cruisers” in fact reduces, or even stabilises their numbers. If all it does is reduce the rate of increase, the same end result is just delayed.

Well, it seems to have worked..Currently, the rule is that a boat without a mooring isn't a house. Break that rule and consequences follow. If you can afford to buy a boat the size of a house, you can afford to either get a mooring or pay the bus fare to get your kids to school. 

Living on a boat to avoid being homeless and sleeping under a hedge because you're broke is something else. 

And, oddly enough, you don't have to live in London to get a job... 

[ditchcrawler]

Well there are only 195 school days in a year, that is 39 weeks, so there are another 13 weeks to do over the 20 miles in without affecting the kids getting to school. There are 6 holiday periods over a week long each year, so a round trip of 40 miles could easily be done in those 7 to 9 day periods  its less than 7 miles a day. So why use school as the excuse 

[nbfiresprite]

13 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Well, it seems to have worked..Currently, the rule is that a boat without a mooring isn't a house. Break that rule and consequences follow. If you can afford to buy a boat the size of a house, you can afford to either get a mooring or pay the bus fare to get your kids to school. 

Living on a boat to avoid being homeless and sleeping under a hedge because you're broke is something else. 

And, oddly enough, you don't have to live in London to get a job... 

If you afford to have kids, you afford to get a mooring (Which is far cheaper over time). The most recent Cost of a Child report from Child Poverty Action Group  shows what it costs to raise a child to age 18, based on what the public thinks is a minimum standard of living   (excluding housing, childcare and council tax) from birth to 18 is now: £75,233 for a couple.  The average cost is £230,000

Edited September 3, 2019 by nbfiresprite

[nbfiresprite]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well there are only 195 school days in a year, that is 39 weeks, so there are another 13 weeks to do over the 20 miles in without affecting the kids getting to school. There are 6 holiday periods over a week long each year, so a round trip of 40 miles could easily be done in those 7 to 9 day periods  its less than 7 miles a day. So why use school as the excuse 

Another excuse often used by members of the NBTA is that the licance is paid for by the local council and that they have to stay within the council area. 

[dmr]

47 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Or perhaps if they had tried the trip towards Bristol a few times in the last 2-3 years since CRT flagged their insufficient movement they would not be in the present pickle.

That's another kettle of fish. The "Avon" part of the K&A, even before the Bristol run section,  is a bit of a Wild West . Some boats go down there to escape from the rules because it is not seriously patrolled by CRT. Data checkers work from the towpath and that's not really viable on the river. The other side of this coin is that boaters do not add to their cruising range when on the river (or in Bristol)  because they do not get spotted.

 

...............Dave

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

..... The other side of this coin is that boaters do not add to their cruising range when on the river (or in Bristol)  because they do not get spotted.

But it 's not difficult to get a photo of your boat somewhere on the river - that you can produce to C&RT when challenged for insufficient range

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

But it 's not difficult to get a photo of your boat somewhere on the river - that you can produce to C&RT when challenged for insufficient range

What loads of other boaters do in different locations

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

But it 's not difficult to get a photo of your boat somewhere on the river - that you can produce to C&RT when challenged for insufficient range

I think its all quite complicated. A cruising range requires proper cruising. CRT have often said that spending 11 months in a very small area then doing a brief longer trip will most likely not do. Most river moorings (and there are not many) are only 48 hours and taking a photo of yourself moored to a private bank where mooring is possible not strictly allowed might just be a shot in the foot.

 

..........Dave

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

taking a photo of yourself moored to a private bank where mooring is possible not strictly allowed might just be a shot in the foot.

 

So just take photos of the boat passing through locks. Nobody needs to know where you moor.

[TheBiscuits]

17 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

So just take photos of the boat passing through locks. Nobody needs to know where you moor.

We take the alternate approach.   I update my realtime position at three minute intervals when the software provided by waterexplorer.co.uk is working.  I don't worry if anyone knows where I moor, and it helps my friends find me.

 

I have a lot of friends on the system,  and I am more interested in them being able to find me than worrying about those who wish me harm finding me..

 

Maybe you have reason to be concerned,  but I don't. 

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

We take the alternate approach.   I update my realtime position at three minute intervals when the software provided by waterexplorer.co.uk is working.  I don't worry if anyone knows where I moor, and it helps my friends find me.

 

I have a lot of friends on the system,  and I am more interested in them being able to find me than worrying about those who wish me harm finding me..

 

Maybe you have reason to be concerned,  but I don't. 

I think the point David was making it doesn't need to be proof of mooring, just cruising so if you are moored on a private bit of bank  you dont need to tell them that

My movements are on my Blog using Motion X  http://gps.motionx.com/maps/ff1c5c921e028088c047e2fef8d244d5

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

We take the alternate approach.   I update my realtime position at three minute intervals when the software provided by waterexplorer.co.uk is working.  I don't worry if anyone knows where I moor, and it helps my friends find me.

 

I have a lot of friends on the system,  and I am more interested in them being able to find me than worrying about those who wish me harm finding me..

 

Maybe you have reason to be concerned,  but I don't. 

Looks like a good site/tool! I'm going to give that a look. Cheers for the heads up!

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

We take the alternate approach.   I update my realtime position at three minute intervals when the software provided by waterexplorer.co.uk is working.  I don't worry if anyone knows where I moor, and it helps my friends find me.

 

How long are the records available for, Motion X is only 6 months so may not be long enough for enforcement evidence

[doratheexplorer]

10 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well there are only 195 school days in a year, that is 39 weeks, so there are another 13 weeks to do over the 20 miles in without affecting the kids getting to school. There are 6 holiday periods over a week long each year, so a round trip of 40 miles could easily be done in those 7 to 9 day periods  its less than 7 miles a day. So why use school as the excuse 

Because covering the range needs to be an ongoing thing, i.e. being on a continuous cruise.  Bridge hopping for 39 weeks and then going further afield for the rest of the year won't cut it.

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How long are the records available for, Motion X is only 6 months so may not be long enough for enforcement evidence

Permanently as far as I can tell.  I know of several boaters who have successfully challenged overstay notices with the journey logs.

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Because covering the range needs to be an ongoing thing, i.e. being on a continuous cruise.  Bridge hopping for 39 weeks and then going further afield for the rest of the year won't cut it.

Unless you have a school child and meet C&RTs "School Time Cruising requirements"

 

Letter from Richard Parry to Michelle Donelon (MP) responding to a question she asked.

 

It is a Pdf so I cannot post it on the forum - a short extract follows :

 

 

 

I also have a 'graphic' showing examples of acceptable movements (3 mile radius) during school time, this uses Northchurch School simply as an EXAMPLE

Here is one page as a screenshot.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Because covering the range needs to be an ongoing thing, i.e. being on a continuous cruise.  Bridge hopping for 39 weeks and then going further afield for the rest of the year won't cut it.

I did point out he could actually do it at least 6 times a year when the kids are off for a week, at Christmas and summer they could even cruise a lot further. In 6 weeks I have done 400 miles

[mayalld]

On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 20:16, NB Caelmiri said:

With the exception of “bucking the system”, what is wrong with the preference to simply have a “floating flat” and not being interested in boating? Everyone who owns a boat, whether it be for living, for pleasure, for exploring the network, or whatever else has their own reason for being on the water. Who are you or I to determine what reason someone has for being on the water? As long as they’re abiding by the rules,

They aren't.

 

Hope that Helps

[Guest]

1 minute ago, mayalld said:

They aren't.

 

Hope that Helps

I'm talking in general, not this specific case.

 

Hope that helped.

[mayalld]

6 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I'm talking in general, not this specific case.

 

Hope that helped.

So was I

 

You're welcome

[zenataomm]

On 02/09/2019 at 11:11, NB Caelmiri said:

All we have to go on, in this particular story, is what is reported in the article, which isn't much. There could be any number of reasons why they haven't moved enough - obviously them having kids in a particular school is one of them. It's just far too easy to point the finger and I feel like we're far too quick to judge.

What on earth are you saying?

Since when has having children been a legitimate reason for thinking you can ignore rules?

[Boater Sam]

The cheats and free loaders of this world will always find any excuse to make their way of living seem plausible. But at the final analysis they are bums who are abusing the system and everyone else.

[Paul C]

8 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Because covering the range needs to be an ongoing thing, i.e. being on a continuous cruise.  Bridge hopping for 39 weeks and then going further afield for the rest of the year won't cut it.

 

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unless you have a school child and meet C&RTs "School Time Cruising requirements"

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I also have a 'graphic' showing examples of acceptable movements (3 mile radius) during school time, this uses Northchurch School simply as an EXAMPLE

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I understood it to be this:

1) New place every 14 days (as defined in the 95 Act)

2) Acceptable range of (is it?) 20 miles, as communicated by CRT quite widely, time period as "licence period" (that might be 6 months.....), which CRT say will satisfy them of "using the boat boda fide" etc etc etc

 

So, there is no relaxation or exemption for those with school-age children, and the correspondence (which I understood was only sent to one family?) was merely an illustration of how the two requirements of being near a school during term time and the CCing movements, can be practically met.