Human waste.

[Alway Swilby]

I once met a guy on a dutch barge just below Long Sandall lock on the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation. He was planning to empty his pump out tank directly into the canal because it was leagal to do so as long as you are not more than one lock from the sea. So I said "Sykehouse Lock and Ocean Lock in Goole is two locks? He replyed "Oh Goole doesn't count because it's not a CRT lock"! I pointed out the pump out machine in Long Sandall Lock which he claimed not to know about. "Oh, I'll use that then". Whether he did or not I don't know.

[sirweste]

Apparently priory marina all use sea toilets, few of the boats have holding tanks. Apparently the pump out is covered in cobwebs! 

 

I'm amazed that it's legal that high up the river. Completely wrong in my opinion

Priory marina in Bedford

 

Twas false info I was told

Edited August 28, 2019 by sirweste

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

The Nene and Gt Ouse are only tidal in parts, mainly just down from the dog in the doublet lock (Nene) and Denver Sluice on the Gt Ouse. There is also a tidal stretches on the Gt Ouse at Earith. 

 

Although it may be legally acceptable, I am not sure how morally acceptable it is to discharge your bog into the River. (particularly if it is a cassette bog) 

You cant dump chemicals, ie blue

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

It can on a river, not on a canal.

 

I think that applies only to tidal rivers, but there are many sewage treatment works that discharge raw sewage into rivers when in flood. I was quite horrified to find that out after the Boxing Day floods in the Calder Valley.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/16/raw-sewage-flowing-into-rivers-across-england-and-wales

 

Looking at the azolla problem on the Selby canal it makes you think.

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Apparently priory marina all use sea toilets, few of the boats have holding tanks. Apparently the pump out is covered in cobwebs! 

 

I'm amazed that it's legal that high up the river. Completely wrong in my opinion

Priory marina in Bedford

Yuk. Wish I knew that when we moored at Eaton Socon. I used to go swimming in the river. 

[rusty69]

.... Maybe the river needs renaming. The River Great Poos. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by rusty69

[PaulJ]

6 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Apparently priory marina all use sea toilets, few of the boats have holding tanks. Apparently the pump out is covered in cobwebs! 

 

I'm amazed that it's legal that high up the river. Completely wrong in my opinion

Priory marina in Bedford

Hmm. Complete rubbish.

To start with a good majority of the boats have come off the canal system so wont ever have had sea loos or the means to fit one retropectively.

Priory Marina has gone to considerable expense to install a pump out system that permanently runs round the pontoons that the the static boats there are moored on. There is a second pump on the visitor pontoon although I cannot comment on cobwebs on it.

While I dont doubt there are still a few (older cruisers) boats in there that are still pumping out into the marina it is very much banned in there.  I have personally had to inspect boats with holding tanks/change over valves and submit a written report to the manager  (who takes a very dim view of boats discharging sewage into the marina-as do most of the moorers)

Boats that have come out the water and have the relevant skin fittings with owners that are never seen pumping out do get noticed..

I have also,over the years,  unblocked many of the  holding tanks /macerator loos that dont exist according to you.

 

 

[Tumshie]

26 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Apparently priory marina all use sea toilets, few of the boats have holding tanks. Apparently the pump out is covered in cobwebs! 

 

I'm amazed that it's legal that high up the river. Completely wrong in my opinion

Priory marina in Bedford

According to their website they are right next-door to a green flag awarded country park I doubt that would happen if loads of folk were emptying their toilet directly into a river, regular pump outs into the same area very quickly become obvious. 

 

https://bwml.co.uk/priory-marina/

 

https://www.bedford.gov.uk/leisure-and-culture/parks-and-open-spaces/parks-and-play-areas/priory-country-park/

 

 

[sirweste]

Ah fair enough, sounded horrific - glad it's not the truth!

[Murflynn]

2 hours ago, sirweste said:

Ah fair enough, sounded horrific - glad it's not the truth!

pity you pass on unconfirmed hearsay - that is how fake news and conflict is kindled.

[sirweste]

1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

pity you pass on unconfirmed hearsay - that is how fake news and conflict is kindled.

Yer I agree, normally the lass speaks the truth. Pinch of salt in the future. 

In my defence I didn't state it as fact using "apparently", glad it has been proved incorrect

[PaulJ]

3 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Yer I agree, normally the lass speaks the truth. Pinch of salt in the future. 

In my defence I didn't state it as fact using "apparently", glad it has been proved incorrect

Its not an untruth as such-just things have changed in the last 30 odd years! When Priory used to be Harry Kitchener Marine (as far as my memory goes) there was no pump out-I made the (original) elsan emptying point utilising the old shower block waste pipes in about 1988 I think. When the marina got took over by Sawley (pre BWML) I also installed the pump out machine (probably early 90,s) and then made the pump out boat for the static houseboats that couldnt get to the visitor moorings.

So you see, over the years, Priory really have done their bit to keep the poo out the River ?

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Maybe out at sea from a small boat, but on a river? In this day and age? Really? Where's @Alan de Enfield when you need him?

You can 'dump' directly into rivers where the practice has not been banned.

 

The River Trent (including Non-tidal) is one where direct discharge is 'legal'.

There are a number of other Rivers.

 

In France it is the norm to direct discharge into the rivers and canals.

In Turkey & Greece it is illegal to discharge overboard even at Sea (under 12 miles from land) - BIG fines if caught. 

 

Marinas on rivers can make their own rules which moorers must obviously adhere to.

 

The BSS simply states :

 

9.2 Sanitation systems
9.2.1
Is a closeable valve fitted in the discharge line of any toilet appliance or toilet holding
tank with overboard discharge?

Check all toilets and toilet holding tanks for
the presence of an overboard discharge line.

If present, check for the presence and
condition of a closeable valve installed in the
discharge line.

All toilets and toilet holding tanks having an overboard
discharge line must have a closeable valve fitted in the
discharge line.

The valve and connections must be complete and leak‐free.

[mrsmelly]

5 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

It can on a river, not on a canal.

 

Wrong.

[ditchcrawler]

Steve Haywood did a big rant about it last year

[Momac]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The River Trent (including Non-tidal) is one where direct discharge is 'legal'.

I have heard that said but never found reference for it.

 

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Yuk. Wish I knew that when we moored at Eaton Socon. I used to go swimming in the river. 

You may have thought you were going swimming in the river but it now seems you were simply going through the motions

[rusty69]

21 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You may have thought you were going swimming in the river but it now seems you were simply going through the motions

E̶x̶c̶r̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ Excellent! 

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I have heard that said but never found reference for it.

 

 

It is very difficult to prove / disprove a 'negative'.

 

Try doing research to find an Act disallowing it.

[Momac]

50 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is very difficult to prove / disprove a 'negative'.

 

Try doing research to find an Act disallowing it.

There was a document called PPG14 published by the EA. In this the EA indicated discharge of toilets from boats into inland waterways to be unacceptable.

But PPG14 has been withdrawn together with other pollution prevention guidelines. 

 

This does not mean pollution is acceptable.  Indeed it means any pollution incident is open to investigation.

 

The lack of a law specifically prohibiting discharge of toilets from boats into inland waterways doesn't make it immune from prosecution.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by MartynG
.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, MartynG said:

There was a document called PPG14 published by the EA. In this the EA indicated discharge of toilets from boats into inland waterways to be unacceptable.

But PPG14 has been withdrawn together with other pollution prevention guidelines. 

 

This does not mean pollution is acceptable.  Indeed it means any pollution incident is open to investigation.

 

The lack of a law specifically prohibiting discharge of toilets from boats into inland waterways doesn't make it immune from prosecution.

 

This was the only document I could ever find, but, as you rightly say, it was only 'guidance, and was withdrawn anyway.

 

You cannot be prosecuted for something that is not illegal. It may not be 'widely accepted' by many, but that does not make it illegal.

 

These guidelines provide general guidance to all who enjoy the use of waterways, estuaries and coastal waters, and are particularly relevant to users of powered boats and operators of boating support facilities. The information given is additional to any specific bye-laws or licensing conditions that apply to the waterway being used

 

So unless there is legislation (Bye-laws or Acts) then it is not illegal to discharge sewage in to the waterway.

 

There is no such bye-law or Act relating to the Trent.

 

The only bye-law that could be 'argued' to have relevance would be :

 

Bye-Law 40

 

40. No person shall throw or discharge into or on to any canal any
animal (whether alive or dead) or any rubbish, stones or other
material of any kind whatsoever or deposit such materials so as
to be washed or carried into any canal by floods or other means,
or in any wise cause obstruction in any canal.

[Momac]

54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

So unless there is legislation (Bye-laws or Acts) then it is not illegal to discharge sewage in to the waterway.

 

The water resources act 1991.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The water resources act 1991.

 

Well found - that looks like it may cover it.

 

I will have a detailed read, - at 1st scan it would appear to only apply on the Trent upstream of Cromwell - ie the tidal sections of any river are not covered by the legislation.

[Momac]

I think it covers controlled waters which includes 3miles from the baseline - offshore.

 

[ditchcrawler]

28 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The water resources act 1991.

 

For those of you that do Facebook here is a long thread from Steve Haywood about it, He probably wrote about it the the canal mag the following month   https://www.facebook.com/steve.haywood.18/posts/1047670135329100

 

This is what he said in 2016

 

I rarely use Facebook to publicise my column in Canal Boat, but I make an exception for the one I've written for the September issue. It's about the Environment Agency and the appalling way in which they're managing the Great Ouse. Envonment Agency? It's more like a Pollution Agency. It allows boats to empty their sea toilets directly into the river which they were doing last week during the heatwave while kids were splashing around in the water, and playing in canoes, and their mums and dads were preparing picnics on the bank. It's completely unacceptable.

Edited August 28, 2019 by ditchcrawler