Bleeding the fuel filter of my Beta 38 engine

[jetzi]

Since I couldn't do my exhaust this weekend, I decided instead to do an engine service. I had wanted to do this afterwards, since the air filter has a lot of soot in it, but I figured I could at least change the oil, the oil filter and the fuel filter.

 

Oil change and oil filter change was a breeze.

 

I bought an original Beta fuel filter, part number 211-02817.

 

There are two fuel lines from my tank, one that leads to a silver contraption with a plug on the bottom, then through the fuel filter, then to the engine. The other leads directly to the other side of the engine. Both lines have an stopcock that were both on. Here's a pic:

 

 

I turned off both stopcocks and drained off the fuel that was in the silver contraption (which I believe is to trap water and sediment?).

 

I then unscrewed the original fuel filter - an orange one marked FRAM P-4766. I tipped out the fuel that was in it and put it to one side.

 

I then tried to screw in the new filter. It was a bit longer than my existing fuel filter and couldn't quite fit. I removed the alternator and tried to get it on but the thread also didn't seem to match up. Given that it was too long and the thread wasn't matching, I decided to give up and replace the original fuel filter.

 

After this I turned both stopcocks on and started the engine. After about 5 seconds it abruptly died, due to lack of fuel coming through.

 

I then bled the silver contraption - a steady flow of fuel was coming out.

 

I tried to crank again, and nothing. I gave it a good four or five cranks of at least 5 seconds.

 

I then removed the fuel filter and filled it with diesel I aquired from the aforementioned bleeding of the silver contraption.

 

I also noticed another nut on top of the fuel filter holder, which I removed to look inside, and I think this might be to prime the filter? I am not sure. I looked thoroughly for any kind of manual pumps and levers, and I saw nothing. So I presumed that it must be a "self bleeding" type.

 

I tried to crank it for a good 30 seconds, and then got scared I was running the battery flat or doing something else horribly wrong and I decided to write this post.

 

Please help!

[TheBiscuits]

Your engine fuel filter is at the bottom right of your picture, just above the alternator.  You can see the red filter cartridge on your photo.

 

Edit: must read more of posts before replying!

Edited August 25, 2019 by TheBiscuits

[jetzi]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Your engine fuel filter is at the bottom right of your picture, just above the alternator.  You can see the red filter cartridge on your photo.

Yes, I took it off and put it back on and now my engine won't start! What have I done wrong? How can I fix?

[Philip Hooton]

i have a Beta 38 my fuel filter has a black plastic knob to press down to prime the pump, yours looks to be a little older, just wondering if what appears to be a bolt is the bleed screw to let air out of the filter casing.

[jetzi]

5 minutes ago, Philip Hooton said:

wondering if what appears to be a bolt is the bleed screw to let air out of the filter casing.

That was my hunch. How would I use it if so? Open it up and crank the engine? I can give that a try...

 

EDIT: I removed the bolt. cranked it another good 20 seconds or so, no dice. I notice there is also what looks like it could be a bleed bolt on the top of the silver contraption. Could that be any good?

Edited August 25, 2019 by ivan&alice

[ditchcrawler]

You now have air in your injector pump that you need to probably need to bleed via the injector pipes. After you change a filter you MUST bleed the filter before attempting to start the engine. But if you read my blog not everyone takes as much care as they should  because I have done the very same thing today 

http://nbharnser.blogspot.com/2019/08/tardebigge-saturday-25-august-2019.html

 

11 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

That was my hunch. How would I use it if so? Open it up and crank the engine? I can give that a try...

 

EDIT: I removed the bolt. cranked it another good 20 seconds or so, no dice. I notice there is also what looks like it could be a bleed bolt on the top of the silver contraption. Could that be any good?

No you will just suck more air in, Go to Tony's web site and read his instructions

[jetzi]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

You now have air in your injector pump that you need to probably need to bleed via the injector pipes. After you change a filter you MUST bleed the filter before attempting to start the engine. But if you read my blog not everyone takes as much care as they should  because I have done the very same thing today 

http://nbharnser.blogspot.com/2019/08/tardebigge-saturday-25-august-2019.html

 

Ooh, I hadn't noticed your blog before, I will certainly read it now!

I'm sorry that you had the same problem, quite a coincidence though1

 

Any direction for how to bleed the injector pipes...?

[jetzi]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No you will just suck more air in, Go to Tony's web site and read his instructions

Sorry @ditchcrawler I must have missed this, where is Tony's website? Do you have a link?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, ivan&alice said:

Ooh, I hadn't noticed your blog before, I will certainly read it now!

I'm sorry that you had the same problem, quite a coincidence though1

 

Any direction for how to bleed the injector pipes...?

Yes, after I had bled the primary and on engine filters properly and had all the air out I slackend the union on all the engine injector pumps pipes and cranked the engine until at least one of them stopped bubbling and sperted tiny amounts of diesel, while still cranking I tightened it up and looked for the next one and tightened that up, at that point the engine started running, I stopped cranking and tightened the last union up, I only have 3. Read this before you go any further http://www.tb-training.co.uk/13bfuel.htm#bmn50

Edited August 25, 2019 by ditchcrawler

[system 4-50]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

union on all the engine injector pumps

=> pipes ?

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

=> pipes ?

Thanks, corrected it now

[jetzi]

Thanks, too late to be cranking my engine now but I'll wake up the neighbours bright and early tomorrow morning... I really appreciate the advice. It's a learning experience, anyway...

 

One question that I haven't been able to figure out from the Beta user manual. Why are there two fuel lines? They both seem to go into the injector pipes. One seems to circumvent the filters. Why? Are they both supposed to be permanently open?

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Why are there two fuel lines? They both seem to go into the injector pipes

Do you mean the diesel return pipe perhaps? 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

One question that I haven't been able to figure out from the Beta user manual. Why are there two fuel lines? They both seem to go into the injector pipes. One seems to circumvent the filters. Why? Are they both supposed to be permanently open?

The line that goes through the silver filter/water trap on the left hand side of the engine bay in your picture in the first post is the fuel feed line. The other pipe is the return back to the tank of any fuel that is not used by the engine. Usual way most diesel engines are done. It doesn't circumvent the filters as it has already been through them after coming down the feed line. Opposite direction of flow. They valves should both be open during normal operation. Open is with the handles in line with the pipes as in the picture in post 1. Closed is 90 degrees to the pipe.

 

Jen

[cuthound]

17 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Thanks, too late to be cranking my engine now but I'll wake up the neighbours bright and early tomorrow morning... I really appreciate the advice. It's a learning experience, anyway...

 

One question that I haven't been able to figure out from the Beta user manual. Why are there two fuel lines? They both seem to go into the injector pipes. One seems to circumvent the filters. Why? Are they both supposed to be permanently open?

 

One is the fuel return for the injector spill pipes. 

[jetzi]

Fascinating. So diesel actually circulates from the tank to the engine and back? I had assumed that they were both coming from the tank, but it is clear that they have the opposite direction of flow now that you point it out, because the valve handles point in opposite directions!

Why do diesel engines have return pipes? Why can't they just take as much fuel as they need? I presume that's how petrol engines work?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Why do diesel engines have return pipes? Why can't they just take as much fuel as they need? I presume that's how petrol engines work?

Many petrol engines are similar and will spill any unused petrol back to the tank through a return pipe. Don't know the reason for diesel engines being like that, but on petrol it can stop the fuel overheating and vaporising in the pipe and leading to vapour lock and no flow at all. Petrol is much more volatile than diesel though. There are exceptions on some petrol engines.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[cuthound]

11 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Fascinating. So diesel actually circulates from the tank to the engine and back? I had assumed that they were both coming from the tank, but it is clear that they have the opposite direction of flow now that you point it out, because the valve handles point in opposite directions!

Why do diesel engines have return pipes? Why can't they just take as much fuel as they need? I presume that's how petrol engines work?

 

A diesel engine modulates its power by varying the quantity of fuel injected and this is done by “spilling” off the excess from the pistons in the pump. This fuel is piped back to the tank. 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

A diesel engine modulates its power by varying the quantity of fuel injected and this is done by “spilling” off the excess from the pistons in the pump. This fuel is piped back to the tank. 

Oh, dear cuthound. Looks like a Google search result to me

[ditchcrawler]

Go back and read more of tony's web pages http://www.tb-training.co.uk/13bfuel.htm#bmn45

[cuthound]

Yes, quickest way to answer his question ?.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

I bought an original Beta fuel filter, part number 211-02817.

 

 

 

 

I turned off both stopcocks and drained off the fuel that was in the silver contraption (which I believe is to trap water and sediment?).

 

I then unscrewed the original fuel filter - an orange one marked FRAM P-4766. I tipped out the fuel that was in it and put it to one side.

 

I then tried to screw in the new filter. It was a bit longer than my existing fuel filter and couldn't quite fit. I removed the alternator and tried to get it on but the thread also didn't seem to match up. Given that it was too long and the thread wasn't matching, I decided to give up and replace the original fuel filter.

 

 

That silver thing is not a Beta filter, the Beta filter will be mounted on the enge somewhere, probably below the air filter at a guess. Follow the black pipe from the silver thing and it should take you to a pump, from the pump a pipe should go to the filter and from the filter to your injector pump

Edited August 25, 2019 by ditchcrawler

[jetzi]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That silver thing is not a Beta filter, the Beta filter will be mounted on the enge somewhere

The fuel filter can be seen in the bottom right of the pic. It's marked "FRAM P-4766 Fuel Filter".

I'm not sure what the silver thing is called but I believe it is to let water and sediment out of the fuel - that stuff sinks and you can let it out of a plug at the bottom. In fact you can see a little red diesel that spilled out into my bilge.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

The fuel filter can be seen in the bottom right of the pic. It's marked "FRAM P-4766 Fuel Filter".

I'm not sure what the silver thing is called but I believe it is to let water and sediment out of the fuel - that stuff sinks and you can let it out of a plug at the bottom. In fact you can see a little red diesel that spilled out into my bilge.

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/13bfuel.htm#bmn48

[ditchcrawler]

13 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

The fuel filter can be seen in the bottom right of the pic. It's marked "FRAM P-4766 Fuel Filter".

 

I thought you tried to fit the Beta filter to it but it wouldnt fit