Johny London Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) Wanting to upgrade my solar connections now that I have a few panels and couple controllers or so, adding breakers would be good and I saw a few options, the neatest of which would appear to be consumer unit style ones https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63A-DC-Circuit-Breaker-MCB-Solar-Fuse-125v-Single-Pole-1P-Ebike-TOB1Z-63-C63/271990741484?epid=2098495247&hash=item3f53e959ec:g:URUAAOSw3YNXYTfc with a little consumer unit say: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/weatherproof-consumer-unit-modular-enclosure-RCD-MCB-contactor-switch-IP65-box/112896821422?hash=item1a492cc8ae:m:mrh8pMhkNMZE25CiEMGti_Q as I wouldn't necessarily need to include the master double pole switch, just four breakers. Or could get an eight way and include master. Is there a better way to do this? I see a lot of chinese looking stuff that I want to avoid! could maybe wire it so that breakers are between panels and mppt controllers and then the combined outputs go through the master switch? Edited August 23, 2019 by Johny London Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 Most AC domestic breakers, MCBs, are not advised for DC use. They have not the engineering to cope with the sustained arc on break that occurs with DC. Schneider, was Merlin Gerin, are used on DC supplies in telephone exchanges etc. and are used on my boats. They have been good for over 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny London Posted August 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 Yeh I know about the different requirements for DC breakers, the one I linked to is for DC, the consumer unit is just bog standard. Not sure about compatibility though. I'll take a look at the Merlin Gerins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 48 minutes ago, Johny London said: could maybe wire it so that breakers are between panels and mppt controllers and then the combined outputs go through the master switch? Yes. Those breakers appear fine up to 125V D.C. so will have no problem handling your panel outputs. Where you might have difficulty if you then wanted to wire the controller outputs through a breaker is getting more than a single cable into that ‘master’ switch. It would be a neat solution if it’s possible. Don’t forget to use ferrules on the cable ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: Most AC domestic breakers, MCBs, are not advised for DC use. They have not the engineering to cope with the sustained arc on break that occurs with DC. Schneider, was Merlin Gerin, are used on DC supplies in telephone exchanges etc. and are used on my boats. They have been good for over 20 years. Unless the practice has changed recently, BT use fuses rather than breakers to protect DC circuits in their exchanges, because they provide much quicker protection. Fuses also provide much better discrimination, rupturing at twice the rated current rather than the 3-5 times rated current that MCB's open at. Edited August 23, 2019 by cuthound To unmangle the effects of autocorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 Its the amps which are no good for me 63 of them eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, cuthound said: Unless the practice has changed recently, BT use fuses rather than breakers to protect DC circuits in their exchanges, because they provide much quicker protection. Fuses also provide much better discrimination, rupturing at twice the rated current rather than the 3-5 times rated current that MCB's open at. My experience is with modern exchanges and switching centers, Cable & Wireless ( Mercury ) We installed thousands of M-G MCBs, replacing fuses in new disboards often. They always specified rotary switches too, better arc gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: My experience is with modern exchanges and switching centers, Cable & Wireless ( Mercury ) We installed thousands of M-G MCBs, replacing fuses in new disboards often. They always specified rotary switches too, better arc gaps. Modern exchanges are VOIP (voice over internet protocol). But I thought you knew that already ? https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchanges/21cn_overview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) I have been using those in your first link for a couple of years. I also have some Merlin Gerin ones as BoaterSam suggests as I read they were good for DC applications. ETA. Mine are fitted in a couple of garage consumer units. Edited August 23, 2019 by rusty69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny London Posted August 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) Great - sounds like this could be the way forward for me. I'm uncertain about compatibility of different manufacturers breakers/consumer units. From my limited dealings think different breakers are physically different? 63a is perfect, a bit more than I get off any one array and I want a breaker on each array. The purpose is two fold - one to give me a good place to bring all the connections together, two to allow me to isolate the panels if/when I'm mucking around. So I would have each array connected into it's own breaker. the breaker outs to each controller (one per array) then controller outs commoned back to the master switch, then off to the batts. If the busing in the consumer unit allows things oeseparately hooked up - again I cant remember - seem to think there is common live rail but it can be split up? Ps: Been meaning to get into using ferrules, what do I need to get started? Edited August 23, 2019 by Johny London Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, Johny London said: Ps: Been meaning to get into using ferrules, what do I need to get started? You need a ratchet crimper tool and ferrules to suit the size of your cable. 6mm^2 in the example below. https://www.screwfix.com/p/ratchet-crimping-tool-1-0-10mm-/96561?tc=WT7&ds_kid=92700022850516740&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1244066&gclid=CjwKCAjwnf7qBRAtEiwAseBO_MBla3lXihW00pXHYjoGmdHWg9KNRaVJ-awK4HlRlXxGgA-EXCb9vBoCFe0QAvD_BwE https://www.amazon.co.uk/Green-6mm-Bootlace-Ferrule-Pack/dp/B07BNK4DBM/ref=sr_1_5?adgrpid=53035802557&gclid=CjwKCAjwnf7qBRAtEiwAseBO_BMz3pjKlGWhR4Q7iqguejwtRozdIJGsAwa1BgFdMGaD1uywBjiCVhoC_CAQAvD_BwE&hvadid=259035387243&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=1007147&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=17500574388204581876&hvtargid=kwd-365921900597&hydadcr=29386_1792352&keywords=6mm+ferrules&qid=1566570698&s=gateway&sr=8-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, cuthound said: You need a ratchet crimper tool and ferrules to suit the size of your cable. 6mm^2 in the example below. https://www.screwfix.com/p/ratchet-crimping-tool-1-0-10mm-/96561?tc=WT7&ds_kid=92700022850516740&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1244066&gclid=CjwKCAjwnf7qBRAtEiwAseBO_MBla3lXihW00pXHYjoGmdHWg9KNRaVJ-awK4HlRlXxGgA-EXCb9vBoCFe0QAvD_BwE https://www.amazon.co.uk/Green-6mm-Bootlace-Ferrule-Pack/dp/B07BNK4DBM/ref=sr_1_5?adgrpid=53035802557&gclid=CjwKCAjwnf7qBRAtEiwAseBO_BMz3pjKlGWhR4Q7iqguejwtRozdIJGsAwa1BgFdMGaD1uywBjiCVhoC_CAQAvD_BwE&hvadid=259035387243&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=1007147&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=17500574388204581876&hvtargid=kwd-365921900597&hydadcr=29386_1792352&keywords=6mm+ferrules&qid=1566570698&s=gateway&sr=8-5 Or in my case solder ? I did because I knew that aroundtuit would never happen so figured that solder would work as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, peterboat said: Or in my case solder ? I did because I knew that aroundtuit would never happen so figured that solder would work as well Theoretically soldering can lead to broken wires, particularly if they are subject to vibration, because the transition from flexible to solid cabling is very sudden. The crimp s designed to support the cables to minimise the chance of this happening. That said 20 years ago soldering was a pretty common practice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, cuthound said: Theoretically soldering can lead to broken wires, particularly if they are subject to vibration, because the transition from flexible to solid cabling is very sudden. The crimp s designed to support the cables to minimise the chance of this happening. That said 20 years ago soldering was a pretty common practice. No vibration on my boat as its a super smooth electric motor, I did talk to the panel builders opposite to the garage and they said it would be ok and again they said they did it in the olden days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, cuthound said: Theoretically soldering can lead to broken wires, particularly if they are subject to vibration, because the transition from flexible to solid cabling is very sudden. It'll be fine ... it's not like @peterboat has any unusually high powered electrical systems on his boats! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 6 hours ago, Boater Sam said: Most AC domestic breakers, MCBs, are not advised for DC use. They have not the engineering to cope with the sustained arc on break that occurs with DC. Schneider, was Merlin Gerin, are used on DC supplies in telephone exchanges etc. and are used on my boats. They have been good for over 20 years. Hager in mine. They are certified for 12V dc too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard10002 Posted August 23, 2019 Report Share Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) Dont know much about this stuff, but these two links may help: Some Hager DC rated MCBs: https://www.hager.co.uk/downloads-services/technical-services/mcb-s-dc-rated/56346.htm Edited August 24, 2019 by NB Lola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Richard10002 said: BEAMA Guide to Low Voltage Circuit-breakers Standards in accordance with BS EN 60898-1, BS EN 60898-2 and BS EN 60947-2: That points to a pdf on your C drive. I don’t have access to your pc Edited August 24, 2019 by NB Lola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, WotEver said: That points to a pdf on your C drive. I don’t have access to your pc That's OK Tony, I do! Richard's file ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard10002 Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said: That's OK Tony, I do! Richard's file ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 I used one of these. They do various current ratings. https://www.bimblesolar.com/extras/dc-circuit-brakers/10a-din-breaker-tomzn Looks to be the same as the OP's first link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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