Power drain

[Kelpies boatman]

Brill. Many thanks all for your insights and help n support everyone!!

Have switched everything off tonight so expect to see near zero drop in power by morning. If that's the case then it is the fridge! Thought we were doing the right thing by buying a replacement £430 12v fridge. Clearly not and cost us in time and replacements trying to resolve. Ah well. B O A T! as well as that elongated learning curve!

Thanks again for your input.

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Kelpies boatman said:

Thought we were doing the right thing by buying a replacement £430 12v fridge.

 

But that WOULD have been the right thing to do! Unfortunately instead you bought a gas/12v/240v absorption fridge which a completely different animal.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Kelpies boatman said:

Have switched everything off tonight so expect to see near zero drop in power by morning. If that's the case then it is the fridge!

 

Errr that doesn't follow at all. To prove it is the fridge you need to switch off ONLY the fridge and keep everything else ON, Shirley?

[system 4-50]

Keep the fridge. Install gas.

[Kelpies boatman]

Thanks Mike. That's kind of what I meant. The fridge is off. Everything else normal however overnight won't use anything except the loo and the water pump.

 

Thanks System 4-50. Have gas so considering adding gas to the fridge for off grid excursions.

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, Kelpies boatman said:

Thanks Stegra. So no one uses fridges afloat?

I have a small multifunction fridge and run it from lpg precisely because I don't want a constant drain on the batteries. If you must run a fridge from your batteries, get one that's specifically designed to be efficient on DC power and switch it off at night.

[Kelpies boatman]

Thanks Blackrose

Lpg it is

[Rob-M]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I have a small multifunction fridge and run it from lpg precisely because I don't want a constant drain on the batteries. If you must run a fridge from your batteries, get one that's specifically designed to be efficient on DC power and switch it off at night.

A fridge doesn't need to be switched off at night, the electrical system just needs to be capable of meeting it's demand.  We have a 12v fridge that is on whenever we are on the boat but as we are only holidaying we move most days and therefore put at least 6hrs of charge in to the batteries.

[ditchcrawler]

21 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I have a small multifunction fridge and run it from lpg precisely because I don't want a constant drain on the batteries. If you must run a fridge from your batteries, get one that's specifically designed to be efficient on DC power and switch it off at night.

I don't switch mine off at night

Does anyone actually know the BSS regulations on fitting a new gas fridge on a boat. I read comments on it but no evidence and I don't mean RCD requirements

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I don't switch mine off at night

Does anyone actually know the BSS regulations on fitting a new gas fridge on a boat. I read comments on it but no evidence and I don't mean RCD requirements

Fitting a fridge on a liveaboard comes under the GSIUR (law) rather than the BSS or RCD

 

The BSS explains to their examiners that they cannot work on (work includes loosening a nipple to take a pressure reading) unless they are qualified and gas safe rregistered.

 

From the BSS Website :

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used primarily for residential or domestic purposes fall within scope of a piece of  UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, the law demands that anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered.

As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of a screw nipple on a gas test point, the scope of the GSIUR includes carrying out BSS LPG tightness test.

Therefore, on a boat in scope of GSIUR, examiners who are not Gas Safe registered can only complete check 7.12.2 (confirming gas tightness) by either:

• undertaking a gas tightness test using a bubble tester where fitted and correctly located; or,
• observing the tightness test conducted by a (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered installer

Does a Bubble Tester do away with the need for a Gas Safe registered engineer testing the gas system on residential boats?

Yes, because any BSS Examiner can check for leaks using a fully functioning and appropriately located bubble tester. It is the case however that there is no BSS requirement for a bubble tester and so fitting one is matter of boat owner choice.

Note that all other types of gas work, such as adding or replacing an appliance, needs to be conducted by a Gas Safe registered engineer with the LPG boat competence listed on his/her identity card.

 

Details of the GSIUR :

 

Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 (GSIUR) as amended. Approved Code of Practice and guidance

The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 came into force on 6 April 2018.

This Approved Code of Practice and guidance gives advice on how to meet the requirements of GSIUR and the amending regulations. 

This guidance is for anyone who may have a duty under the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998, including those who install, service, maintain or repair gas appliances and other gas fittings. Landlords also have duties under these regulations.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Fitting a fridge on a liveaboard comes under the GSIUR (law) rather than the BSS or RCD

 

As well as, not rather than.

 

BSS allows gas fridges of any type IIRC

RCD allows room sealed gas fridges but not open flue appliances, again IIRC, which is why you don't find Morcos in new boats.

GSIUR says they are fine. 

 

 

Add a bit:

 

Yer average gas fridge is actually classed as flueless rather than open flue, unless it has a flue kit fitted. But even the flue kit doesn't make it room sealed.

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, Rob-M said:

A fridge doesn't need to be switched off at night, the electrical system just needs to be capable of meeting it's demand.  

 

Yes but lots aren't capable of meeting the demand so lots of people do need to switch them off at night. I was just letting the OP know.

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes but lots aren't capable of meeting the demand so lots of people do need to switch them off at night. I was just letting the OP know.

When I red Robs post to which you replied I thought does he understand that we are NOT talking about a compressor 12V fridge that can fairy easily be left on overnight but are talking about a mains/gas/12V absorption type fridge. that will demand 240 Ah per day and that implies virtually 500Ah of batteries just to run the fridge before we even consider how to get that 240Ah back into the batteries.

 

I think Rob does not understand.

[MtB]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes but lots aren't capable of meeting the demand so lots of people do need to switch them off at night. I was just letting the OP know.

 

Just because people do it does not make this a Good Idea. A fridge is normally 3c to 5c to keep chilled food. Turning it off for 8 hours allows the interior temperature to steadily rise overnight, probably to 10c or more for several hours before you turn it back on, which strikes me as a plain silly thjng to do for no obvious benefit.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

BSS allows gas fridges of any type IIRC

On private boat it does, on non-private boats it is quite specific :

 

From the BSS

 

Cooking, heating, refrigerating and lighting appliances could all ignite or fuel a fire on your boat. The aim of this Part is to minimise the risk of fire and explosion caused by leaked fuel or overheating surfaces or materials. It also aims to control potential sources of ignition, such as pilot lights.

The provisions of Part 8 in the 2002 BSS Standards are mandatory for non-private boats where applicable.

There is a growing recognition of the risks associated with the use of non room-sealed gas appliances when used in confined spaces such as boats. These risks include poisoning and suffocation to individuals on board from improperly flued and ventilated appliances. So new LPG appliances must be room sealed, except where room-sealing is not physically possible, i.e. cooking appliances.

There is one specific exception to this rule and this is for LPG instantaneous water heaters. Based on the good previous safety record of these particular appliances, and until such a time as a room-sealed direct replacement becomes easily available, British Waterways and the Environment Agency accept the continued installation of instantaneous water heaters on private boats. If you are changing your non-room sealed instantaneous water heater it's strongly recommended that you consider room sealed alternatives.

[Kelpies boatman]

Ah well. Proof of the pudding and all that!! Last night switched off fridge at 12.8v available on batteries. This morning 12.75!! So there ye go. Time to resolve food storage!!

Thanks for your help and advice folks. Most helpful!!

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

On private boat it does, on non-private boats it is quite specific :

 

From the BSS

<snipped>

 

We are discussing a private boat.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

We are discussing a private boat.

 

 

 

But you said :

 

10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

BSS allows gas fridges of any type IIRC

I was simply pointing out that, that is an incorrect statement.

You are normally so pedantic.

 

Now - had you said 

 

10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

On Private Boats the BSS allows gas fridges of any type IIRC

You would have been correct.

 

However there are BSS concerns about non-room sealed fridges on Petrol engine boats and there were discussions to get them banned (even on private boats) but I'm not sure where the BSS are 'up to' with that.