starter motor chattering ( won't start)

[jenevers]

Coincidentally battery knackered. New battery but starter motor on generator is chattering as if teeth not engaging. What's the diagnosis folks?

[Boater Sam]

Generator will not run a starter motor.

[Sir Nibble]

Do you have any idea how many designs of starter there are? Inertia? Pre engaged?

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Generator will not run a starter motor.

He says it is the starter motor on the generator.

 

@jenevers - Might help to know what generator it is ?

[jenevers]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

He says it is the starter motor on the generator.

 

@jenevers - Might help to know what generator it is ?

Mastervolt Whisper 6000 with Mitsubishi L2E

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, jenevers said:

Mastervolt Whisper 6000 with Mitsubishi L2E

Are you sure its the starter motor teeth clicking and not the solenoid ?

Try the screwdriver (mooring pin) in the ear test.

The only reason s that the teeth are clicking is :

1) Throw is not enough to fully engage teeth

2) Teeth damaged.

 

If it turns out you need a new one there is a cross reference list here showing all other manufacturers part numbers so you can shop around for price.

 

https://www.motoelectrical.co.uk/types/starters/starter-motor-smt0319-mitsubishi-ground-master-work-man/

[jenevers]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are you sure its the starter motor teeth clicking and not the solenoid ?

Try the screwdriver (mooring pin) in the ear test.

The only reason s that the teeth are clicking is :

1) Throw is not enough to fully engage teeth

2) Teeth damaged.

 

If it turns out you need a new one there is a cross reference list here showing all other manufacturers part numbers so you can shop around for price.

 

https://www.motoelectrical.co.uk/types/starters/starter-motor-smt0319-mitsubishi-ground-master-work-man/

Thanks. I'll keep you posted?

[Tony Brooks]

One other possibility but unusual. The starter illustrated uses a sprag clutch (free wheel) between armature and pinion. If that has failed it may make a clicking noise as it tries to drive and then slips but this is not likely and the motor would be running but not turning the engine.

[Sir Nibble]

Those starters are fairly reliable. Most likely problem is a poor connection. 

[bizzard]

Chilly this morning, might have been jenevers teeth chattering.

[Tom Morgan]

On my motor bike, the starter solenoid chattering was sign that new battery was needed.  As you have one, I think the solenoid might be the next thing to look at.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Tom Morgan

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Tom Morgan said:

On my motor bike, the starter solenoid chattering was sign that new battery was needed.  As you have one, I think the solenoid might be the next thing to look at.

 

Unless the hold in coil has gone open circuit a solenoid fault can not make the motor chatter.  As the solenoid pull in coil usually earths through the motor I think a brush fault would be more likely, especially if the generator has auto-start and has been in use for along time. However as SirN says a loose/dirty/poor crimp connection ios now the most likely, especially as the battery connections have been tampered with.

[Tom Morgan]

Happy to take Tony’s judgement on this. When it happened on my bike, a new battery cured it so I didn’t have to look any further. 

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Tom Morgan said:

Happy to take Tony’s judgement on this. When it happened on my bike, a new battery cured it so I didn’t have to look any further. 

Standard symptom of a battery so flat it can just about pull the solenoid into mesh but as soon as the contacts energise the motor the motor load pulls the voltage down so low the solenoid can't hold in any more so it flies back out only to keep on repeating this action. We tend to call it machine gunning.

 

 

A heavy clunk when the starter engages followed by not a lot could indicate solenoid contact problems. But although not impossible (open circuit hold in coil/incorrectly fitted solenoid cap causing the same) a solenoid fault is far less likely. I have only known a few over my working life, some of which was as an autoelectrician.

[Bod]

Worth removing the starter motor, to view the starter ring on the fly wheel, for wear on the teeth?

 

Bod

[jenevers]

Brand, spanking NEW battery did the trick. Yippee!

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, jenevers said:

Brand, spanking NEW battery did the trick. Yippee!

 

On ‎19‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 07:54, jenevers said:

New battery but starter motor on generator is chattering as if teeth not engaging.

But you said you had already replaced the battery

Had you not said you had replaced it, the 1st suggestion would have been 'low battery'.

 

Is this now another new battery ?

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, jenevers said:

Brand, spanking NEW battery did the trick. Yippee!

it won't be much good if it doesn't get properly charged, which may be the reason the previous one failed.  Suggest you monitor it closely.

[Tony Brooks]

12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But you said you had already replaced the battery

Had you not said you had replaced it, the 1st suggestion would have been 'low battery'.

 

Is this now another new battery ?

 

That was the bit that lead me astray as well. As the op said he had changed the battery then a looseoir dirty battery connection was the most likely. As they used to say in computing "garbage in - garbage out". I find the biggest problem when trying to help people here is the difficulty in getting accurate and enough information plus often a reluctance to carry out what should be simple diagnostic tasks..

Edited August 23, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[jenevers]

On 23/08/2019 at 09:48, Tony Brooks said:

 

That was the bit that lead me astray as well. As the op said he had changed the battery then a looseoir dirty battery connection was the most likely. As they used to say in computing "garbage in - garbage out". I find the biggest problem when trying to help people here is the difficulty in getting accurate and enough information plus often a reluctance to carry out what should be simple diagnostic tasks..

OK. The explanation is .... I used jump leads from my NEW engine stater battery, but maybe the power drain via the leads was too much to start the generator. So I bought another battery for the Genny and Hey Presto, problem solved. Sorry if I misled you. Not my intention because I really value all the freely given advice on this forum?

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, jenevers said:

OK. The explanation is .... I used jump leads from my NEW engine stater battery, but maybe the power drain via the leads was too much to start the generator. So I bought another battery for the Genny and Hey Presto, problem solved. Sorry if I misled you. Not my intention because I really value all the freely given advice on this forum?

Thanks for the explanation - jump leads are a very unreliable way of carrying high current. I know that's what they are designed for but they don't always work effectively.

I find the best way to use jump-leads is to connect the two batteries together and run the engine at high (charging) revs for 10 - 15 minutes, this gets a bit of power back into the flat battery, then try again starting with the jump-leads.

 

(When applying the jump-leads give them a god 'screwing' to get the teeth to cut into and grip the battery terminal).

[Tony Brooks]

Many DIY car type jump leads are not much more than old HT cable with thick insulation and a thin inner copper core. I now always make up my own using good flexible heavy duty battery/welding cable. The crock clips on ready made cables also seem to be distinctly light weight (see Alan's post above).

 

The idiot retail "car" jump cables seem to be designed to connect the flat battery to another with a revving engine for a while so you get at laest some charge into the flat battery.

 

Thanks for the explanation and now other boaters may eb a bit more selective in coosing Jump cables.

[cuthound]

Yes I made my own using 150mm^2 welding cable (very flexible) and the crocodile clips off a cheapo pair of jump leads.

 

Trouble is I lent them to a neighbour before I moved and he never gave them back. ?

[Murflynn]

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Yes I made my own using 150mm^2 welding cable (very flexible) and the crocodile clips off a cheapo pair of jump leads.

 

Trouble is I lent them to a neighbour before I moved and he never gave them back. ?

never a lender or a borrower be.

[rusty69]

.... Guess they didn't have libraries in Shakespeare day.