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App for locks


Momac

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The locks on the Trent are automated and may be operated by the boater out of lock keeping hour (other than the tidal locks).

 

It would be great if the locks could be boater operated using an app on a smartphone.  The app would only allow one user to have possession of the lock at any time. 

 

For manually operated locks the app could allow the boater to look ahead via CCTV cameras at each lock. 

 

Does anyone think this is an idea that might be considered by C&RT.....?

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2 hours ago, Rob-M said:

This was being planned for the swing bridges on the Gloucester Sharpness canal but as yet I don't think it has been implemented.

I suspect that it is one of those things that look simple at first but rapidly become very complex when all the hidden aspects are considered. (One of the reasons why GBP mistrust experts . . . ) Even before H&S get their hands on it!

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You could link the use of the app to your account with CRT so you have to have an online account to enable the app. Could be an issue for hire boats but I guess they could have done temporary password system for hirers that lasts the duration of their hire only.

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44 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I suspect that it is one of those things that look simple at first but rapidly become very complex when all the hidden aspects are considered. (One of the reasons why GBP mistrust experts . . . ) Even before H&S get their hands on it!

As a software developer who's done some work with apps it doesn't seem the most horrendous thing ever to develop. However I can't see how it could anything other than safety critical which adds a whole additional layer of pain. The security aspect is also tricky - not because it's a difficult thing technically, but from a human perspective. However I really can't see what's wrong with the current system which would make it worth it - the biggest problem being that not everyone would want to use it and I don't see why they should be forced to. Ultimately the market is so small (I'm assuming few people use the locks out of hours) - is the OP thinking CRT should divert money from maintenance for this?

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1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:

how do you stop Joe Public from getting the app and messing with the locks?

The abuser would be identified. 

I imagine the system requiring your location to be identified .

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

I see no reason to "modernise" a system that has worked perfectly well for hundreds of years. There are far more important things for CRT to spend money on. 

Maybe you should get a horse and remove your new fangled diesel engine.

 

2 minutes ago, aracer said:

 is the OP thinking CRT should divert money from maintenance for this?

It was just an idea that came to me. Dont take it too seriously.

 

 

However C&RT might well find technology could help them make efficiencies.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rob-M said:

You could link the use of the app to your account with CRT so you have to have an online account to enable the app. Could be an issue for hire boats but I guess they could have done temporary password system for hirers that lasts the duration of their hire only.

What about if you dont carry a smart phone

 

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2 hours ago, MartynG said:

The abuser would be identified. 

I imagine the system requiring your location to be identified .

? the most amusing thing for me of imagining such a system is playing poacher and imagining ways to abuse it. Dead easy to spoof identity and location if so desired (you mentioned cameras, so presumably I could also watch as I operated the lock from hundreds of miles away). That's assuming an internet connected system which would be normal, but to put my gamekeepers hat on I'd make it a bit less user friendly by requiring you to connect to the local WiFi to operate it.

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

It was just an idea that came to me. Dont take it too seriously.

Don't worry I'm not!

44 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The existing lock  controls would,of course,  remain in place.

Hmm, I was wondering that, but that just makes it all so much more complex...

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3 hours ago, Rob-M said:

You could link the use of the app to your account with CRT so you have to have an online account to enable the app. Could be an issue for hire boats but I guess they could have done temporary password system for hirers that lasts the duration of their hire only.

And a knowledgeable 13 year old would probably hack it in 5 minutes! 

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

What about if you dont carry a smart phone

 

Or drop it in the water.

Did I see the OP in a canalside lock the other day? Man and his partner walk into pub, buy drink, sit down then spend the next hour staring at their phone screens. Sad or what?

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User operation is one thing, remote user operation is quite another! 

 

(I assume we're talking big river locks here, I don't want to see narrow locks suddenly becoming electrified and whistle operated!)

 

The technology would be easy for one isolated boat, but would get messy with more, and would need a lot of safeguards. For example, I can open the gates to my storage depot (so I can get the car to the unit) from anywhere. No big deal as they close again fairly quickly and if I do it accidentally then no real harm. A lock would need some kind of proximity safety catch.

 

At the moment the proximity catch is you need to be there with a key - very simple. If you're not you can't work the lock.

 

There are systems on the continent that allow this kind of thing but they all have remote supervision. Given the way our canals are going, do you really want a volocky monitoring ten cameras along the trent? I'd rather the volocky was lockside, with me, or just me, no volocky at all.

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3 hours ago, MartynG said:

Maybe you should get a horse and remove your new fangled diesel engine.

 

You miss the point. Locks work perfectly well in the 21st century, as they always have, but a horse on the towpath is impractical in most places, and cannot recharge a battery bank. 

 

An app to work a lock is unnecessary. It is a solution looking for a problem. Two saws: (1) If it ain't broke don't fix it, and (2) Keep It Simple, Stupid.    

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1 hour ago, Slim said:

:angry2:

Well I went diving on Tuesday and got it back - it's a "waterproof" phone so hadn't leaked much, have been drying it out since (being "waterproof" it's also hard for water to get out). Powered it up today now there's no condensation on the camera lens any more - it seems to work though still lots of dampness in the screen, so more drying required, but surprisingly hopeful given it was a couple of metres under for about 16 hours!

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13 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

User operation is one thing, remote user operation is quite another! 

 

(I assume we're talking big river locks here, I don't want to see narrow locks suddenly becoming electrified and whistle operated!)

 

Can't see that working too well with all the dog walkers about! ?

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16 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

How about the system on some French canals where there is a handle suspended in the middle of the lock that you twist to set the automated locking process in motion....

My thought exactly: we call it a "saucisson", it is suspended above the canal on a cable and you just twist it to set the electric lock process in motion.

   It would, however, be difficult for a French single-hander to operate as the steering positions of the majority of French canal boats is within a cabin. There would be less of a problem with narrowboats.

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15 hours ago, MartynG said:

The existing lock  controls would,of course,  remain in place.

Our local rail company introduced a similar (Sounds like a good idea in theory but ...) some little while ago.

 

Reserve your seat from a smartphone App.

 

What could go wrong, instead of reserving a seat days or weeks in advance (when you don't know which train you will actually catch) - allow the user to reserve a seat while standing at the station waiting for the train to arrive. Even if it's not where the train originates...

 

 

 

Now imagine the poor non-smartphone user. They boarded the train as it left the starting point and sat in a seat marked "Free". While they are sat there - the sign changes to "Reserved from ..." A passenger approaches "you're in my seat". "no I'm not... Ah"

 

(IMHO) a solution looking for a problem - Moor up, go hit the buttons on the console. If you MUST offer local remote working (a tautology in my view) make it BlueTooth or something which is provably with a few tens of metres of the structure. And make sure the BlueTooth Network is isolated from the Internet...

 

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