Batteries goosed

[mayalld]

Bit of history here;

 

Due to a series of unfortunate occurrences, use of the boat over the past couple of years has been less than previously (this is not going to be an ongoing situation).

 

Two new batteries (type 629) fitted Easter 2017, with a 2 year warranty.

 

In December 2017, the existing trickle charger was replaced by a multi-stage charger.

 

Summer last year, noted that the volt meter never rose above 13.6 volts, even with a Stirling Battery boiler. Diagnosed as a blown fuse in the Stirling unit, replaced, and volts looked better.

 

This week, noted that even after having been left on shoreline charge, and 5 hours run from the marina, the inverter died at 3am.

 

Watched the Volt meter this morning.

 

The usual pattern is first half hour just over 12 volts, climbing to 15 volts for an hour, then dropping back to 14.5, and eventually settling back to 13.5 I've always seen this as the first bit being the alternator putting out full current to discharged batteries, then the Stirling unit pushing to maximum volts on the timer, and then settling back.

 

Today, climbed almost immediately to 15 volts, then died back to 14.5 within minutes, then within an hour at 13.5. There were occasional surges to 15, which probably coincided with the fridge kicking in.

 

I'm seeing this as sulphated batteries, with almost no remaining capacity, allowing the alternator to charge to "full" very quickly, but very little actual charge.

 

Anybody want to suggest another explanation, before I visit my friends in Stockport for replacements.

[ditchcrawler]

Have you checked the water levels in the battery

 

[matty40s]

Batteries do not like being sat on float on landline for months/years on end, no matter what gadgets you have. They just die.

A simple solar system to keep them tickled and sometimes inputting no voltage(at night), is far better at longevity for stationary, empty boats.

 

[mayalld]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have you checked the water levels in the battery

 

I have, and the levels are fine.

 

Assuming the theory is correct, I am looking at;

 

https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/pair-of-abs-629-xd-commercial-batteries/

 

as the new ones. They are far and away the lowest price for two 629s that ABS do, come with a 3 year warranty, and are rated at 185Ah rather than the 170-180Ah that one typically sees in this case size.

1 minute ago, matty40s said:

Batteries do not like being sat on float on landline for months/years on end, no matter what gadgets you have. They just die.

A simple solar system to keep them tickled and sometimes inputting no voltage(at night), is far better at longevity for stationary, empty boats.

 

I am resigned to the fact that mistreatment by yours truly has played a part in the demise (although an erratic marina power supply does mean that they do get a bit of drain and refill)

 

However, the boating fallow period is coming to an end, so the prolonged layups will not feature in the future regime!!

[matty40s]

It's not just you, so many people think that by sitting in a marina on a landline, their batteries will last forever as they arent being used. They dont, they need to be cycled, even if only a bit, just to prevent sulphation. ....which is what the sterling gizmo is supposed to do but doesn't.!!

[Bod]

16 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Batteries do not like being sat on float on landline for months/years on end, no matter what gadgets you have. They just die.

A simple solar system to keep them tickled and sometimes inputting no voltage(at night), is far better at longevity for stationary, empty boats.

 

That explains why mine have lasted so well, considering long enforced idleness.

Whilst on shore line, I had a 7 day timer installed, for reasons of economy, 2 days on, 5 days off.

Now on solar, the batteries are better charged.

 

Bod

[mayalld]

7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It's not just you, so many people think that by sitting in a marina on a landline, their batteries will last forever as they arent being used. They dont, they need to be cycled, even if only a bit, just to prevent sulphation. ....which is what the sterling gizmo is supposed to do but doesn't.!!

I have always regarded batteries as a disposable commodity.

 

They last as long as they last then they get replaced.

 

As I have other things to do than attending upon the altar of the great god of batteries to preserve them forever, I tend to do neglectful things, and solve them with a credit card!

 

It isn't even the money that hurts. It's the thought of lugging two batteries out from where they sit on the swim, onto the top of the engine, then noticing that having lugged a battery on top of the engine, I'm trapped at the side of the thing.

 

They are heavy buggers 629s!

[ditchcrawler]

26 minutes ago, mayalld said:

I have, and the levels are fine.

 

Assuming the theory is correct, I am looking at;

 

https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/pair-of-abs-629-xd-commercial-batteries/

 

as the new ones. They are far and away the lowest price for two 629s that ABS do, come with a 3 year warranty, and are rated at 185Ah rather than the 170-180Ah that one typically sees in this case size.

I am resigned to the fact that mistreatment by yours truly has played a part in the demise (although an erratic marina power supply does mean that they do get a bit of drain and refill)

 

However, the boating fallow period is coming to an end, so the prolonged layups will not feature in the future regime!!

forget how long the guarantee is unless buying from Halfords, its no indication of battery life, just manufacturing failings 

[BruceinSanity]

This reminds me of something I’ve been meaning to ask. Like the OP, health stuff has meant we’ve not been out this year. The boat is sat on her mooring with the solar keeping the domestics sorted but it only occurred to me the other month that the start battery had nothing going into it. On checking, it was down to 12.5v, so I put the Mastervolt on to get some ergs into it. After 24 hours the charge voltage had dropped back to 13.6 and a few hours later with the charger off the voltage had fallen back to 12.5.

 

The battery is nine years old so, rather than faffing about trying to save it, I’m going to replace it before we next need it. Looks like this was right as it’s now down to 10.5v, having dropped another 2 volts in a month. There’s no drain on it, isolator is off. My question is, would it work to stick a jump lead from the domestic +ve to the start +ve so that the solar keeps both banks nicely tickled? It’s 135 W of solar through a decent MMPT controller, so should have enough to handle the extra battery.

 

I’d take the lead off before boating, obv.

[BEngo]

Yes. You could even make up a proper lead with wingnuts for easy disconnect.

N

 

N

[roland elsdon]

Thats how i leave my system when we go abroad for 5 months. Start battery is now 8 years old, and the best of the bunch.

halfords battery,  size the biggest i could carry the mile from halfords to the boat...

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, BruceinSanity said:

This reminds me of something I’ve been meaning to ask. Like the OP, health stuff has meant we’ve not been out this year. The boat is sat on her mooring with the solar keeping the domestics sorted but it only occurred to me the other month that the start battery had nothing going into it. On checking, it was down to 12.5v, so I put the Mastervolt on to get some ergs into it. After 24 hours the charge voltage had dropped back to 13.6 and a few hours later with the charger off the voltage had fallen back to 12.5.

 

The battery is nine years old so, rather than faffing about trying to save it, I’m going to replace it before we next need it. Looks like this was right as it’s now down to 10.5v, having dropped another 2 volts in a month. There’s no drain on it, isolator is off. My question is, would it work to stick a jump lead from the domestic +ve to the start +ve so that the solar keeps both banks nicely tickled? It’s 135 W of solar through a decent MMPT controller, so should have enough to handle the extra battery.

 

I’d take the lead off before boating, obv.

 

Yes, but so would a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) and if you have two alternators that will parallel them as well. The only down side I can see is that one alternator MIGHT shut down when the batteries (all of them)a re approaching fully charged and then it does not matter. A VSR will do it automatically with no messing with jump leads but a jump lead will be cheaper. The problem with a  jump lead is that if/when a battery shorts internally  both banks are likely to end up discharged where as a VSR would simply disconnect the two banks.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, BruceinSanity said:

My question is, would it work to stick a jump lead from the domestic +ve to the start +ve so that the solar keeps both banks nicely tickled?

Exactly what I do.

 

[BruceinSanity]

Thanks, folks, helpful as ever. Tony, I take the point about the VSR but as we’re planning to change the boat in 18 months time, something to think about for the next one.

[MtB]

13 hours ago, mayalld said:

As I have other things to do than attending upon the altar of the great god of batteries to preserve them forever, I tend to do neglectful things, and solve them with a credit card!

 

In my experience, even doing the worshipping is no guarantee of good battery life. I think it has more to do with battery design and construction than received wisdom here accepts. My start batteries were purchased from Vince ten years ago and basically ignored since fitting and they have just as much life in them as my mollycoddled Trojanoids. 

 

[cuthound]

Sometimes batteries that have been on float for a long time and appearcto be knackered can be brought back to life by putting a light load on them for a few minutes (say 5 for the first dischsrge a d increasing by a minute each time) and then recharging. Repeat frequently.

 

If the capacity increases all well and good. If it doesn't, then bin them.