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Trent and mersey locks- beware


Leemc

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I've been up and down locks all over the country for 30 years, but I've never experienced anything like I did last week when going up Heartbreak Hill near wheelock. The lock was leaking a bit at the front so I stayed back a bit. My wife opened one paddle and after a few seconds the boat felt like it was picked up and slammed into front gates. 

Safe to say, paddles were opened much more slowly from then on.

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2 minutes ago, Leemc said:

I've been up and down locks all over the country for 30 years, but I've never experienced anything like I did last week when going up Heartbreak Hill near wheelock. The lock was leaking a bit at the front so I stayed back a bit. My wife opened one paddle and after a few seconds the boat felt like it was picked up and slammed into front gates. 

Safe to say, paddles were opened much more slowly from then on.

A well known effect. I once managed to catapult my sister-in-law the length of the boat when the same happened in MIddlewich. Nowadays i always let the bow button ride up the gate - works fine.

 

MP.

 

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22 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

A well known effect. I once managed to catapult my sister-in-law the length of the boat when the same happened in MIddlewich. 

 

Chuffin eckers,  must have been one hell of a bang, 60 feet, did she recover....?

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On most of the Shroppie locks I’ll stay at the back with the button on the gates.  Easier to see if anything could hold up.  However on deeper locks I’ll have the bow resting on the cill and then the gates as it rises.  This is particularly the case with Wardle Lock.

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14 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Worst local one is Wardle lock on the branch. It is overlong, a toll lock for grading boats too. Maureen knew how to work it without boats charging the top gate.

No problem now, it fills so slowly you can do a brew while you wait

 

37 minutes ago, Leemc said:

I've been up and down locks all over the country for 30 years, but I've never experienced anything like I did last week when going up Heartbreak Hill near wheelock. The lock was leaking a bit at the front so I stayed back a bit. My wife opened one paddle and after a few seconds the boat felt like it was picked up and slammed into front gates. 

Safe to say, paddles were opened much more slowly from then on.

Have you ever been up the Napton flight, just the same thing

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13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No problem now, it fills so slowly you can do a brew while you wait

 

Have you ever been up the Napton flight, just the same thing

Many years ago Brian, we did the Warwickshire ring starting at Napton- but don't remember riding a " lock missile" ! Could've been going down rather than I up.

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It’s true that the T&M narrowboat locks do have a strong forward pull. But as with everything, there are different ways of managing it. Some just open the paddles really slowly (very dull!), some ride the top gate. Wears the fender and there is slight risk of a hang up.

 

We just sit our 59’ boat very near the back of the lock, so the rear fender doesn’t quite bump when the first paddle is opened (fully, straight away) followed by the second one (fully, straight away) and then use modest reverse to hold station just before the forward pull starts. It is important to pay attention and keep right at the back of the lock. Once you allow the boat to move forward significantly, the battle is lost and you will hit the gate.

 

As has been said, the “right answer” (if there is one) depends amongst other things on boat length.

Edited by nicknorman
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Like many others posting here I recently went up heartbreak hill, and found it little different to many other locks. My method (others are available) is to take the centre line to the bollard closest to the top gate and pull the boat up to the cill then 'secure' it (I just wrap the rope around the bollard). When you open the paddles the rope prevents the boat being pushed back from the gate and after the initial surge the boat then gets held by the water circulation against the cill/top gate. If the boat isn't secured, the initial surge pushes it away from the gate and then as the  water starts circulating in the lock it drags the boat onto the top gate/cill, if it has been pushed back a fair way it then has the opportunity to build up speed for quite an impact.

 

I started using that technique after experiencing the same issue on the South Oxford locks where, if I started out by the bottom gates of the lock no amount of reverse thrust would stop my boat hitting the top gate/cill as the water starts to circulate.

 

I have yet to work out a similar system for the broad locks of the Kennet and Avon though, whatever you try the boat goes where it wants (if you are coming up alone).

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2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

It’s true that the T&M narrowboat locks do have a strong forward pull. But as with everything, there are different ways of managing it. Some just open the paddles really slowly (very dull!), some ride the top gate. Wears the fender and there is slight risk of a hang up.

 

We just sit our 59’ boat very near the back of the lock, so the rear fender doesn’t quite bump when the first paddle is opened (fully, straight away) followed by the second one (fully, straight away) and then use modest reverse to hold station just before the forward pull starts. It is important to pay attention and keep right at the back of the lock. Once you allow the boat to move forward significantly, the battle is lost and you will hit the gate.

 

As has been said, the “right answer” (if there is one) depends amongst other things on boat length.

 

I used to do this when locking up with the two 58 foot share boats we had. Worked for most locks, except those with the strongest pull.

 

When we got our own boat, which is 60 foot, our first trip up the T&M quickly showed that the pull going up was strong enough to pull the boat into the top gate if the paddles were opened quickish.

 

I modified my uphill technique for the T&M locks and certain other deep locks so that i now ride the gate.

 

The boat is underpropped, so this could also be contributing. The boat is currently being reblacked and is having the 17" x 11" prop exchanged for an 18" x 12" one, so it will be interesting to see if this helps.

Edited by cuthound
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7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I used to do this when locking up with the two 58 foot share boats we had. Worked for most locks, except those with the strongest pull.

 

When we got our own boat, which is 60 foot, our first trip up the T&M quickly showed that the pull going up was strong enough to pull the boat into the top gate if the paddles were opened quickish.

 

I modified my uphill technique for the T&M locks and certain other deep locks so that i now ride the gate.

 

The boat is underpropped, so this could also be contributing. The boat is currently being reblacked and is having the 17" x 11" prop exchanged for an 18" x 12" one, so it will be interesting to see if this helps.

Yes it definitely depends on the size of the boat, and reverse power. We have a big prop with a lot of reverse bite and no ventilation. That said, provided we stay right at the back we don’t need much revs in reverse to hold position. The trick is to anticipate the forward pull rather than react to it. The first indication is that the bow dips (due to Bernoulli effect making the water slope), then the boat is subject to forward acceleration, then the boat develops significant forward speed. If you wait until the last of these three indications, it may be too late. If you engage reverse at the first of the three, it isn’t.

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10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes it definitely depends on the size of the boat, and reverse power. We have a big prop with a lot of reverse bite and no ventilation. That said, provided we stay right at the back we don’t need much revs in reverse to hold position. The trick is to anticipate the forward pull rather than react to it. The first indication is that the bow dips (due to Bernoulli effect making the water slope), then the boat is subject to forward acceleration, then the boat develops significant forward speed. If you wait until the last of these three indications, it may be too late. If you engage reverse at the first of the three, it isn’t.

And if when you do engage reverse at exactly the right moment a stray piece of plastic sheeting or curtain wraps itself around the prop, you will still charge up the lock and hit the top end. :tongue_in_cheek:

Easier in my view to ride up the gate, but with 71' 8" of boat, like David says, you don't have much choice.

We always have the front fender pulled up in locks, so if anything is going to get worn, it is a steel stem post, not a bundle of "knitted rope".

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13 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes it definitely depends on the size of the boat, and reverse power. We have a big prop with a lot of reverse bite and no ventilation. That said, provided we stay right at the back we don’t need much revs in reverse to hold position. The trick is to anticipate the forward pull rather than react to it. The first indication is that the bow dips (due to Bernoulli effect making the water slope), then the boat is subject to forward acceleration, then the boat develops significant forward speed. If you wait until the last of these three indications, it may be too late. If you engage reverse at the first of the three, it isn’t.

He's right you know.

 

Watch for changes in trim. If the bow dips, we are soon going to be pulled forward, and it is time to engage reverse before it becomes impossible to control. If, despite engaging reverse the bow doesn't start to come back up, then as soon as the boat starts to move forward, you want the paddles down, because you know that the engine isn't going to fight this one.

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6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Worst local one is Wardle lock on the branch. It is overlong, a toll lock for grading boats too. Maureen knew how to work it without boats charging the top gate.

Many years ago, Maureen taught me how to use those locks. We loved Maureen and miss her.

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Singlehanding with a short boat, I keep as far back as possible and tie it up with the centre rope. I got helped up one of the locks by someone who wound both paddles up without asking and then watched as I crashed into the gate with the engine flat out in reverse. After that, I once again politely refused help apart from the odd vlockie, all of whom checked before opening any paddle. Every time it happens, it messes the fridge up as, I presume, it dislodges muck onto the burner. 

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3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

And if when you do engage reverse at exactly the right moment a stray piece of plastic sheeting or curtain wraps itself around the prop, you will still charge up the lock and hit the top end. :tongue_in_cheek:

Easier in my view to ride up the gate, but with 71' 8" of boat, like David says, you don't have much choice.

We always have the front fender pulled up in locks, so if anything is going to get worn, it is a steel stem post, not a bundle of "knitted rope".

How many times have you nearly sunk your boat? And what was the cause? - just remind us if you would? And can you tell us how many boats have been sunk by ramming the top gate?

 

Obviously with a full length boat there is no choice but to ride the top gate. But there is a small but tangible risk of a hangup and hence sinking, especially on unfamiliar locks.

 

Equally there is a small but tangible risk of a prop foul in reverse. Never happened to us though. But if it did, the consequences are not dramatic even if no action taken. But hopefully paddles would be lowered in time.

Edited by nicknorman
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