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Specific Smoke alarm?


robtheplod

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Hi Everyone,

 

I know that new Carbon Monoxide detectors need to conform to EN 50291-2 for boats, is there any similar requirement for smoke alarms, or will any domestic ones do?  If I can find a combined Carbon Monoxide and Smoke Alarm that conforms to EN 50291-2 that would be a bonus!

 

thanks!!!

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Well, combined is a bit silly as smoke rises and CO arrives at the nostrils.?

Individually they cost about £15, mass production. what are you expecting to save.

I like the FireAngel [from Robert Dyas], it has a very bright LED light and a "toast" facility

Edited by LadyG
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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

smoke rises and CO arrives at the nostrils.?

What are you talking about??

Smoke rises if it is hotter than the surrounding air, and carbon monoxide rises because it is slightly lighter than air.

Combining the two in one detector is a good idea.

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42 minutes ago, Captain Fizz said:

What are you talking about??

Smoke rises if it is hotter than the surrounding air, and carbon monoxide rises because it is slightly lighter than air.

Combining the two in one detector is a good idea.

I'm talking about the different dangers.

Smoke alarm is to indicate a fire,   the fire won't be at ceiling height.

CO at ceiling height is not going to be deadly unless I happen to be standing still, sleeping in the top bunk.

Most folks would be affected at the height they are sitting or lying at,not standing. CO is insidious, I've experienced it, and once I fainted, but I was outside by then, once I felt sleepy, when in fact, I knew  I should not be sleepy, and I realised we had closed all the hatches and turned on the oven to warm us up!

You can make your point without being unpleasant.

duplicate deleted [sleepy]

I have my CO alarms at mid cabin level, one in bedroom, one near stove. The smoke alarms are placed at ceiling height where they have shown themselves to be sensitive to smoke from sf stove and cooker.

Edited by LadyG
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8 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

so there isn't a specific type of smoke alarm needed for a boat?

Well, in general terms, if we are talking about non commercial, inland boats with some means of combustion, I am sure that is the case in the UK.

Mine have kitemarks, I think.

Edited by LadyG
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10 hours ago, Captain Fizz said:

What are you talking about??

Smoke rises if it is hotter than the surrounding air, and carbon monoxide rises because it is slightly lighter than air.

Combining the two in one detector is a good idea.

Um, a quick google shows that the molecular weight of CO is 28.01 g/mol and the average for dry air is 28.97 g/mol. That of water is 18.02 g/mol, so wetting the air will reduce the average to below that of CO. In effect, the temperature will determine which is lighter and most of the time smoke is going to be warmer than CO.

 

I agree with LadyG and the BSS advice to place CO alarms at head height, varying it depending on location, lower in bedrooms (including dinettes) and higher in other locations.

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On 14/08/2019 at 21:50, Captain Fizz said:

CO will start at ceiling height and work down as the concentration increases so early detection will occur at high level.

A smoke alarm is designed to detect the products of combustion, hopefully before the fire becomes fully developed.

Nope CO from say a stove leak will just mingle around the boat maybe rising slightly until it cools to the temperature of the air in the boat when it will just float around. Because it is almost exactly the same density as the air it will go up, in up draughts, and down in down draughts. 

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I have three CO detectors....one at head height in the lounge/kitchen where the cooker and fire are.

One at sleeping head height in the lounge and one at sleeping head height in the rear bedroom.

 

Three fire angels...which I like.

Once again... lounge near cooker/fire.

One in corridor.

One above the electrical switches/fuse panel rear which is inside a wardrobe.

 

I also fitted lots of cheap £1 flood alarms in various spots...under the bed with hidden pipes...under the kitchen sink...etc..

I put one in the engine compartment....put the sensor wires into a choc block connector and on the other side inserted two lengths of brass rod which go down into the bilge...so if it starts to fill at a pre-set point it sets the alarm off. Saved my last boat as some bad gates on the Wigan flight were flooding over the back deck and the scuppers couldn't cope...

I hadn't realised,

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38 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I like the idea of the flood alarms, do you have any links to them?

They used to have them in Poundland and the Bargain shops. Loads on eBay. They're really sold for house use around washing machines etc. 

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Extract from the BSS on Co Alarm installation :

 

 

But if the placement directions (provided by the manufacturer) are difficult to meet on your boat, these are the 'best practice' points

Try to place the alarm:

  • in living quarters between 1m and 3m (on plan view) from the appliance
  • in living quarters fix alarms high up on a wall, but at least 150mm from the ceiling and where the indicator lights can be seen
  • in sleeping quarters have the alarm in the "breathing zone", i.e. near the bed head
  • before fixing, test that you can hear an alarm from any position in the boat (or buy an additional alarm)
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