What pipe system is this

[Nightwatch]

Direct and straight to the point.

 

 

[PaulJ]

(Older) Hep20

Edited August 12, 2019 by PaulJ

[Nightwatch]

Thanks Paul. Is it still available or is the new stuff compatible? I'm guessing it's 15mm same as small copper pipe.

[PaulJ]

The new ones are like speedfit so totally different. I dont actually know if they still make the old style as I rarely use them.

[Nightwatch]

Thanks again. Thinking about what I want to do. I'm just cutting the pipe and installing an inline shut off valve. As long as it's 15mm won't matter the make would it. I was having a senior moment.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Nightwatch

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks again. Thinking about what I want to do. I'm just cutting the pipe and installing an inline shut off valve. As long as it's 15mm won't matter the make would it. I was having a senior moment.

It would only make a difference if you were inserting strengthening inserts in the pipe, where they would need to match the pipe ID. For a simple inline push fit valve  they aren't needed, so you'll be fine with any of the 15mm push fit systems.

 

Jen

[Boater Sam]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It would only make a difference if you were inserting strengthening inserts in the pipe, where they would need to match the pipe ID. For a simple inline push fit valve  they aren't needed, so you'll be fine with any of the 15mm push fit systems.

 

Jen

I would never fit any push fit fitting on plastic pipe without an insert inside, they are needed on every joint. The makers say so.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, Boater Sam said:

I would never fit any push fit fitting on plastic pipe without an insert inside, they are needed on every joint. The makers say so.

So they do. Some of the fittings on my boat have them. Some of them don't. None of the joints with inserts have leaked. None of the joints without inserts have leaked. For one fitting the risk is vanishingly small, especially with something like a Speedfit push fit isolator that uses o-rings to make the seal, with little pressure on the pipe. The alternative would be to find a stock somewhere of the old style HEP20 inserts and isolator to go with his old style HEP20 pipe that is no longer manufactured.

[Boater Sam]

6 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

So they do. Some of the fittings on my boat have them. Some of them don't. None of the joints with inserts have leaked. None of the joints without inserts have leaked. For one fitting the risk is vanishingly small, especially with something like a Speedfit push fit isolator that uses o-rings to make the seal, with little pressure on the pipe. The alternative would be to find a stock somewhere of the old style HEP20 inserts and isolator to go with his old style HEP20 pipe that is no longer manufactured.

The current hep2o inserts fit all the hep pipe. The fittings also fit all hep pipe and speedfix. The current hep2o fittings are secured by grap teeth in the inner sleeve and are demountable with the push ring tool. The intermediate fittings are not demountable. The original ones are unscrewable. 

So there is no compatibility problem at all.

[tree monkey]

6 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

So they do. Some of the fittings on my boat have them. Some of them don't. None of the joints with inserts have leaked. None of the joints without inserts have leaked. For one fitting the risk is vanishingly small, especially with something like a Speedfit push fit isolator that uses o-rings to make the seal, with little pressure on the pipe. The alternative would be to find a stock somewhere of the old style HEP20 inserts and isolator to go with his old style HEP20 pipe that is no longer manufactured.

Must admit I would always fit an insert, well apart from the one time when I spent what felt like hours upside down with dislocated shoulders blindly trying to fit the pipe to some new taps, I felt very very smug until I spotted the insert sitting all alone and shiny on a shelf rather than in the bloody pipe.

Hasn't leaked in over 4 year, so it's staying in the man draw 

[MtB]

When HEP20 was first launched, pipe sleeves were only specified for when the HEP20 pipe was being fitted in a conventional brass compression fitting.

 

Pretty quickly the changed the spec to all joints needing them as idiot plumbers could not be trusted to fit them where needed, and not where not. Increases sales too, if they say they are needed everywhere.

 

I suspect a pipe sleeve helps the pipe stay in the fitting if the pipe is tightly bent or stressed close to a fitting, too, especially if carrying 90c water. But generally, I don't fit them in my own houses and boats and I've never had a leak as a result. 

 

 

 

 

[Nightwatch]

Thanks for all comments. Just waiting until tomorrow to ask if a nearby person here at the Boatyard has a shears for cutting plasy pipes. Hope he has.

[Boater Sam]

13 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks for all comments. Just waiting until tomorrow to ask if a nearby person here at the Boatyard has a shears for cutting plasy pipes. Hope he has.

Just use a sharp knife, never a saw.

[Pie Eater]

14 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks for all comments. Just waiting until tomorrow to ask if a nearby person here at the Boatyard has a shears for cutting plasy pipes. Hope he has.

I cut mine with a Stanley knife taking care to cut straight.

[Nightwatch]

Got a stanley, got new blades. That's the easy bit. Cut straight you say!

[dor]

Not a problem to cut the pipe with a hacksaw, especially a junior one, to get a straight cut.  BUT you do need to chamfer the edge with a knife to remove the burrs.

[David Schweizer]

8 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks Paul. Is it still available or is the new stuff compatible? I'm guessing it's 15mm same as small copper pipe.

It is still possible to buy a limited range of fittings which are compatible with the old Hep20 fittings at Tool Station page 127 of their current catalogue  :-https://www.toolstation.com/elbow/p11031

 

                  

Edited August 12, 2019 by David Schweizer

[DHutch]

4 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Just use a sharp knife, never a saw.

If your doing more than one or two get a cutter. 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/0-26mm-manual-plastic-pipe-shears/59590?

 

Daniel

[David Schweizer]

8 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

It is still possible to buy a limited range of fittings which are compatible with the old Hep20 fittings at Tool Station page 127 of their current catalogue  :-https://www.toolstation.com/elbow/p11031

 

                  

 B&Q still sell Polyplumb fittings which are also compatible with the older style Hep20  :- https://www.diy.com/search?term=polyplumb

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 B&Q still sell Polyplumb fittings which are also compatible with the older style Hep20  :- https://www.diy.com/search?term=polyplumb

 

 

 

From evidence of ones I removed from Flamingo, whilst this stuff looks broadly the same as the old style Hep2O, the internal bits (particularly the metal grab rings) are not identical, so should not be exchanged between the two types.  I seem to remember the O rings were slightly less chunky as well, but may be remembering that bit wrong.

As has been said, if you are introducing a complete new fitting, it doesn't matter what brand you use, unless it is important to you that it matches for appearance purposes.

[David Schweizer]

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

From evidence of ones I removed from Flamingo, whilst this stuff looks broadly the same as the old style Hep2O, the internal bits (particularly the metal grab rings) are not identical, so should not be exchanged between the two types.  I seem to remember the O rings were slightly less chunky as well, but may be remembering that bit wrong.

As has been said, if you are introducing a complete new fitting, it doesn't matter what brand you use, unless it is important to you that it matches for appearance purposes.

I am sure I successfully used them with Hep20, but cannot remember which grab rings I used. However, as you know, we had four (five?) different versions of Hep20 fittings on Helvetia (including the original brown Acorn fittings), and there were certainly at least two different styles of grab ring, using either type seemed to make no difference to performance. Until recently I had a box of spares with all types in it, but gave them away, did you have them or did they go to Richard?

 

 

[Nightwatch]

Thanks all. Bit the bullet and bought a valve from a convenient B and Q.

[dmr]

15 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Just use a sharp knife, never a saw.

I cut slightly over length using a hacksaw or a proper pipe cutter, I then put an insert in and do a final neat cut with a pipe cutter, it works well.

 

I much prefer the older style HEP2O to the new white one, its much much eassier to take apart in a confined space, the new white ones can be really tricky to "demount".

 

...............Dave

 

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Until recently I had a box of spares with all types in it, but gave them away, did you have them or did they go to Richard?

No, I don't think I had those David, although I did have a box that contained some of your brass plumbing bits for 28mm (mostly) pipe.

Flamingo's plumbing was nothing short of a disaster, and I decided to redo it all.  Having always used Hep2O in the past, but seeing that the latest offering from them bore no resemblance to previous systems, I decided to go for JG Speedfit throughout.  It is both cheaper and more easily available, and seems to have no disadvantages.  I actually like the fact you can lock it off, but taking it apart is simply to unlock it, and needs no tools.  The latest Hep2O still needs tools to take it apart, (though obviously very different from the previous generation.

 

There is one place where I have decided to still use Hep2O, which is ball/isolation/stop valves.  The standard (plastic) Speedfit item heavily restricts flow, having a hole through it that is massively smaller than the pipe.  Hep2O do a much better (brass) valve that is full bore, and doesn't restrict flow when open.  They are, however, from memory, about twice a expensive as the Speedfit item.

I think I still have much of the salvaged Hep2O taken from Flamingo.  I'm really not sure why, as I'm highly unlikely to reuse it.

[Boater Sam]

Full bore ball valves in compression fitting are compatible with plastic from Speedfit and Hep2o and are much better.

I did find one make of pipe that is very slightly larger on the OD and fitted nothing! Trouble is I can't remember what it was.

Otherwise they will all interchange but I prefer the Hep as its more flexible, Be sure to use the twin wall types for central heating, the single wall is prone to allowing air to permeate.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Boater Sam
smellings & Added