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New Begining

confused ...what is a good boat?

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8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The boat will need a total strip and paint (depending upon what you want) this could be every 5 years or every 10 years. I am just in the middle of having mine done (it was last done 4 years ago) and the cost is £9k-£10k.

That equates to £1k - £2k per years.

Will It? As part of the process of changing the name of mine I've removed the layer of paint the current name was on to find what I'm fairly sure is original paintwork underneath - which leads me to think that most of the paint is original. The boat is 30 years old.

Quote

Emptying the toilet £20 each time (every month)

Only if you have the wrong sort of toilet ?

 

Honestly suggested maintenance costs of £5k a year still seems as ridiculously OTT as it did when I bought the boat a year ago. I DIY the fairly minimal engine maintenance and will be DIYing the blacking this week - but even having those done professionally I struggle to see how you get to that (yes I have insurance, licence, BSS, gas, electric to pay, but those aren't maintenance and even if they were it still wouldn't make the costs that high)

Edited by aracer

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7 hours ago, aracer said:

Honestly suggested maintenance costs of £5k a year still seems as ridiculously OTT

 

Did you actually read what I wrote, rather than what you wanted to read ?

 

Post #6

 

"You should really budget £5000 per annum for running and maintenance costs".

 

If you are going to quote 'facts' then at least get them correct. 

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9 hours ago, Stewart Kirby said:

Sawley have some scam, sorry scheme, where you have to move berth every six months to pay a lower level of council tax.

Why can you not accept the law as it stands, and if you are not au-fait, do some investigation rather than accuse business of a scam / tax avoidance ?

 

Council tax in a marina has an option of being either based on individual moorings so each mooring owner pays basic minimum rate A-Band council tax and has a 'permanent mooring', or they can each save about £1000 per annum, by agreeing to a 'composite' council tax where the value of all of the moorings is added together given a 'band' (probably equates to 'Band B') and is then divided by the number of boats.

 

The VOA condition to be allowed to offer composite mooring CT is that the boats must not be allocated a permanent mooring, so to meet this condition BWML told their moorers that they could either pay full Band-A CT, or move 'along' a couple of times a year and pay part of the composite CT.

 

At 'my' marina there was uproar with 'we are not moving - this is our mooring' until I explained that swapping with the boat next to them and by just moving 8 feet along the pontoon, and then 6 months later going back to 'their mooring' would save them £1000 per year.

They finally understood.

 

It is all detailed and explained in simple terms on the BWML & VOA websites should you want to know more.

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19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

"You should really budget £5000 per annum for running and maintenance costs".

 

If you are going to quote 'facts' then at least get them correct. 

 

8 hours ago, aracer said:

but those aren't maintenance and even if they were it still wouldn't make the costs that high)

Your call

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6 minutes ago, aracer said:

 

Your call

 

Licence £800

Diesel @£2 per hour 25 hours per week, 20 weeks per year = £1,000

Gas 2 cylinders @ £30 = £60

Insurance £200 per annum

BSS £50 per annum

Engine oil change, DIY,  every 100 hours (Lister LPWS4) 6x per annum @ £25 = £150

Other consumables (fan belts, air filters etc) £100

Batteries (approx.) £100 per annum

Coal 10 bags @£10 = £100

Blacking (£700 per 3 years) = £250

Anodes (£100 every 3 years) = £35

Amortisation of painting every  5 years £1000

Amortisation of major engine / gearbox / Inverter/ Fridge / Freezer etc replacement (there tends to be something most years) £1000

General replacements / breakdowns (control cables, water pumps water filters etc) £200, 

 

I put £5000 per annum into the 'boat account' and use it for all of the expenditure, it is running at a reasonably healthy level sufficient to be able to cope with (for example) replacing the engine, or repainting the boat.

 

Not everyone will stick to the manufacturers service levels, not everyone will black the boat every 2-3 years, not everyone will want to paint their boat every 5 years etc etc.

Some folks will do zero maintenance and the boat will slowly crumble around them with the value rapidly dropping to nothing - but they will save on annual costs.

Others will actually increase the value of their boat by adding improvements.

 

Out of the 18 boats I have owned I have only lost money on 1 of them. On all of the others (apart from the likes of Fuel, Mooring fees, insurance, licence etc) I have sold them for more than they cost (& that's including maintenance / improvement cost)

 

"Buy-well and sell well"

 

But, It should be remembered that buying a £10,000 steel boat will require a much higher level of 'major investment' in repairs (Overplating, replacing wooden-top etc etc ??) than a well maintained £50,000 boat

 

No two boaters have the same requirements, cruise the same number of hours per year or buy the same boat in the same condition so any figures can only relate to that owners boat.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Licence £800

Diesel @£2 per hour 25 hours per week, 20 weeks per year = £1,000

Gas 2 cylinders @ £30 = £60

Insurance £200 per annum

BSS £50 per annum

Engine oil change, DIY,  every 100 hours (Lister LPWS4) 6x per annum @ £25 = £150

Other consumables (fan belts, air filters etc) £100

Batteries (approx.) £100 per annum

Coal 10 bags @£10 = £100

Blacking (£700 per 3 years) = £250

Anodes (£100 every 3 years) = £35

Amortisation of painting every  5 years £1000

Amortisation of major engine / gearbox / Inverter/ Fridge / Freezer etc replacement (there tends to be something most years) £1000

General replacements / breakdowns (control cables, water pumps water filters etc) £200, 

 

I put £5000 per annum into the 'boat account' and use it for all of the expenditure, it is running at a reasonably healthy level sufficient to be able to cope with (for example) replacing the engine, or repainting the boat.

 

Not everyone will stick to the manufacturers service levels, not everyone will black the boat every 2-3 years, not everyone will want to paint their boat every 5 years etc etc.

Some folks will do zero maintenance and the boat will slowly crumble around them with the value rapidly dropping to nothing - but they will save on annual costs.

Others will actually increase the value of their boat by adding improvements.

 

Out of the 18 boats I have owned I have only lost money on 1 of them. On all of the others (apart from the likes of Fuel, Mooring fees, insurance, licence etc) I have sold them for more than they cost (& that's including maintenance / improvement cost)

 

"Buy-well and sell well"

 

But, It should be remembered that buying a £10,000 steel boat will require a much higher level of 'major investment' in repairs (Overplating, replacing wooden-top etc etc ??) than a well maintained £50,000 boat

 

No two boaters have the same requirements, cruise the same number of hours per year or buy the same boat in the same condition so any figures can only relate to that owners boat.

 

 

 

I spend over £1000 a year on diesel, just think when it costs £1-60+ a liter 

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Are you for real?

 

I spend closer to £100 a year than £1,000  year on paint to maintain my three boats. 

Everyone aspires to different things, some like rust, some don't, some like 'shiny' some don't, some take preventative maintenance as an investment.

As I said - we are not all the same.

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23 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Licence £800

Diesel @£2 per hour 25 hours per week, 20 weeks per year = £1,000

Gas 2 cylinders @ £30 = £60

Insurance £200 per annum

BSS £50 per annum

Engine oil change, DIY,  every 100 hours (Lister LPWS4) 6x per annum @ £25 = £150

Other consumables (fan belts, air filters etc) £100

Batteries (approx.) £100 per annum

Coal 10 bags @£10 = £100

Blacking (£700 per 3 years) = £250

Anodes (£100 every 3 years) = £35

Amortisation of painting every  5 years £1000

Amortisation of major engine / gearbox / Inverter/ Fridge / Freezer etc replacement (there tends to be something most years) £1000

General replacements / breakdowns (control cables, water pumps water filters etc) £200, 

 

I put £5000 per annum into the 'boat account' and use it for all of the expenditure, it is running at a reasonably healthy level sufficient to be able to cope with (for example) replacing the engine, or repainting the boat.

 

Not everyone will stick to the manufacturers service levels, not everyone will black the boat every 2-3 years, not everyone will want to paint their boat every 5 years etc etc.

Some folks will do zero maintenance and the boat will slowly crumble around them with the value rapidly dropping to nothing - but they will save on annual costs.

Others will actually increase the value of their boat by adding improvements.

 

Out of the 18 boats I have owned I have only lost money on 1 of them. On all of the others (apart from the likes of Fuel, Mooring fees, insurance, licence etc) I have sold them for more than they cost (& that's including maintenance / improvement cost)

 

"Buy-well and sell well"

 

But, It should be remembered that buying a £10,000 steel boat will require a much higher level of 'major investment' in repairs (Overplating, replacing wooden-top etc etc ??) than a well maintained £50,000 boat

 

No two boaters have the same requirements, cruise the same number of hours per year or buy the same boat in the same condition so any figures can only relate to that owners boat.

 

 

 

Whilst I agree with some of your figures, and don't spend the same on others, I think you are being a bit light on coal.  Most liveaboards with a squirrel or similar will use about two bags a week, and for at least six months of the year - maybe one bag a week for another couple of months.  So say 30 weeks at £20 a week is £600.  I think a half-decent paint job should last at least ten years, assuming it is looked after.  I do know one boater who boasted about how cheap he got his paint but seemed to be repainting his boat every year or two.  Especially when he thinned some Crown emulsion with white spirit and wondered why the paint was going on all streaky ...

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1 minute ago, dor said:

Most liveaboards with a squirrel or similar will use about two bags a week, and for at least six months of the year - maybe one bag a week for another couple of months.  So say 30 weeks at £20 a week is £600.

Agreed.

 

But we have an ebersplutter so the 'fire' is pretty much used for visual effect as much as warmth.

 

 

Cool Spring / Autumn mornings / evenings you can click the 'eber' and its almost instant heat rather than waiting an hour for the stove to heat up sufficiently to heat the 'airspace'.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Everyone aspires to different things, some like rust, some don't, some like 'shiny' some don't,

 

I aspire to tread a middle path.

 

Amusingly, out cruising on my 30 year old boat (with it's now dull but perfectly serviceable original paint job), I have been labelled a "shiny boater" and a "scruffy boater" by different people both on the same day!

  • Greenie 1

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On 13/08/2019 at 02:48, Stewart Kirby said:

. Maybe you cab find something you like the look of on Apollo Duck and post it here so we can critique it, be ready for blunt responses.

hi id love to have some critique too for two boats I’m interested in if that’s ok? https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/eccleshall-60-cruiser-stern/611566 and https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/pinder-70-traditional/610312  thanks for such kind offers to newbies ! 

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Both look reasonable boats to me with no major alarm bells ringing after a brief scan at the adverts, although very different. 

 

The second has a washing machine machine which I'm not sure the first has, pretty much mandatory if you are CCing. Not a deal breaker though if the first boat chooses you. 

 

 

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Thanks Mike I was a bit worried about the 70 foot one with the washing machine having only one fuel stove at far end and no other heating aparantly the little low to ground heating panels are capped off. But perhaps  that means I could get them working. I don’t think the configuration allows another stove sadly. 

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45 minutes ago, Saani said:

Thanks Mike I was a bit worried about the 70 foot one with the washing machine having only one fuel stove at far end and no other heating aparantly the little low to ground heating panels are capped off. But perhaps  that means I could get them working. I don’t think the configuration allows another stove sadly. 

 

Every boat you ever look at will need something changing to make it suit your own exact requirements. This one needs the heating improving, the other one needs a washing machine. Both good examples of this effect. 

 

Find a boat that is broadly right then live with it for a bit.  You may well find your requirements change once aboard and you can live with it how it is. Somebody else did, after all. If not, only then set about modifying the boat. 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/08/2019 at 16:15, New Begining said:

have to admit 9-10k for a paint job was not on my budget list

It's not on a lot of NB owners list either. Not everyone has a ' Shiny Boat', lots of people get by with slapping on a couple of coats of B&Q's finest exterior :)

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3 hours ago, Clodi said:

It's not on a lot of NB owners list either. Not everyone has a ' Shiny Boat', lots of people get by with slapping on a couple of coats of B&Q's finest exterior :)

I’m posh, I used Dulux -  2 for one a few years ago and still looks ok.

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On 12/08/2019 at 15:48, Stewart Kirby said:

 

Have you tried living in a 6ft wide tube?

Hahahaha!

 

I've been walking up and down my hallway at home, trying to get a feel for the lack of space... When I get out of bed and walk around my bedroom I remind myself that there is not enough space to do this on a boat. Is it one of the things I think I may not be able to cope with, I guess time will tell. 

 

I plan not to liveaboard at first, I'm lucky that I can afford to keep my house and afford some mooring fees where I live. I'll give it a couple of seasons and then see how I get on. I have lived for short periods in vans, but only in good weather and it was some years ago before I got used to home comforts!

 

Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you,

 

Meg

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4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

A good start. Now, turn your central heating up to 40 degrees to simulate summer. Drink a bottle of vodka to simulate the rocking motion. Get someone to periodically slam on your front door to simulate being hit. Do all this whilst wearing a pair of wellies to simulate the inevitable plumbing leak. Now, turn the heating off and open the fridge door. When the temp in the hallway hits - 10,this indicates your fire has gone out in the middle of the night. Now, quick, turn all the lights out.... your batteries are flat, or someone has unplugged your shorepower.

 

Happy boating.....

But there are bad days too ...

  • Greenie 1
  • Haha 1

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5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

A good start. Now, turn your central heating up to 40 degrees to simulate summer. Drink a bottle of vodka to simulate the rocking motion. Get someone to periodically slam on your front door to simulate being hit. Do all this whilst wearing a pair of wellies to simulate the inevitable plumbing leak. Now, turn the heating off and open the fridge door. When the temp in the hallway hits - 10,this indicates your fire has gone out in the middle of the night. Now, quick, turn all the lights out.... your batteries are flat, or someone has unplugged your shorepower.

 

Happy boating.....

 

Then pick a sub-group of boaters (e.g. historics, Hudsons, CMers etc) and come on here and have a right old moan about them and you'll deffly be getting the feel for it...!!

 

 

 

 

(Oops, I missed off widebeams :giggles: )

  • Haha 1

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43 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Then pick a sub-group of boaters (e.g. historics, Hudsons, CMers etc) and come on here and have a right old moan about them and you'll deffly be getting the feel for it...!!

 

 

 

 

(Oops, I missed off widebeams :giggles: )

 

And shiny boats, scruffy boats,  boats with cassette, pump out or composting toilets and a whole lots of other types of boats and boaters in sure. :giggles:

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On 27/08/2019 at 21:50, Mike the Boilerman said:

needs

 

On 27/08/2019 at 21:50, Mike the Boilerman said:

Every boat you ever look at will need something changing to make it suit your own exact requirements

good advice Thanks, it’s been galling to have prospects sell that I wasn’t a hundred percent about only to realise down the line that that’s the nature of the beast. 

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On most boats, I think Alan's five grand a year maintenance is a bit high, but the thing is that what happens with boats is that the bills, when they come, are big. Mine cost peanuts in maintenence for years, till the gearbox broke twice at £1600 a go and the boat needed rebottoming at nine grand. And now I've a two grand bill for engine repair. So these things come in lumps and if the money isn't there you're stuffed, especially if it's your home. 

It's a lovely way of life, but it aint cheap. Less than a house, almost certainly, but not cheap. 

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