Jump to content

2 weeks boating in my electric boat


peterboat

Featured Posts

45 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

By running at 800v as jakk says?

 

This seems unlikely to me here in the UK. In south America where he is, possibly. 

And where's the 800 volts coming from ?  There would have to be a major change to all the sub stations and I can't see that happening.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_1004_charging_an_electric_vehicle

Edited by Flyboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

There is a lamp post near me with the side cover missing. The wiring inside is 1.5 sq mm, how is this going to supply 7Kw. ?  I can't see the local authorites upgrading all the lighting cabling any time soon.

If your lamp post are in this state then I suggest you have bigger issues than where you're going to charge the electric car you don't have, however that's a matter for a different thread. According to Ubertricity (who I don't think have any ties to uber taxis) when the old style orange lighting being heavier on power and needing heavier cabling gets swapped out for LEDs which don't need such heavy cabling then the lamp post can now also accommodate a charging point. 

 

https://www.ubitricity.co.uk

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

And where's the 800 volts coming from ?  There would have to be a major change to all the sub stations and I can't see that happening.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_1004_charging_an_electric_vehicle

There are differences between charging in Europe and America so are you linking to an American site because that's where Jakk is?

 

For a British site I quite like Zap-Map, nice peeps the zap-map peeps - https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, jakk said:

 

Batteries can be recycled. Also some car manufactures are planning to put used car batteries into grid storage so get more life out of them before recycling.

 

Although in theory 95% of tne materials in a lithium ion battery can be recycled, currently only about 5% worldwide is. Compare this to lead acid batteries where the recycling rate is currently over 95%. Surprisingly China is actually the world leader in the lithium ion recycling race.

 

http://www.mining.com/close-loop-lithium-ion-battery-recycling/

 

The reason for the low recycling rate of lithium ion batteries over lead acid batteries is two fold.

 

1. Their construction of many small cells interconnected to make each battery means recycling is labour intensive and thus expensive.

 

2. The value of lithium is low compared to lead, although lithium ion batteries do contain expensive metals such as cobalt, as being in minute quantities.

 

Until the cost of mining lithium rises, widescale recycling of lithium ion batteries is likely be be limited, unless there is a sea change in economics of  recycling.

 

 

 

Edited by cuthound
To remove a duplicate post
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

If your lamp post are in this state then I suggest you have bigger issues than where you're going to charge the electric car you don't have, however that's a matter for a different thread. According to Ubertricity (who I don't think have any ties to uber taxis) when the old style orange lighting being heavier on power and needing heavier cabling gets swapped out for LEDs which don't need such heavy cabling then the lamp post can now also accommodate a charging point. 

 

https://www.ubitricity.co.uk

 

 

 

Lets introduce some facts into the streetlight charging debate.

 

According to this website https://www.quora.com/How-much-power-does-a-regular-street-light-consume, typical sodium discharge street light bulbs are rated at 100-500 watts (up to 2 amps at 230 volts), and there LED repacements are rated at 10-30 watts ( up to about 0.15 amps at 230 volts).

 

500 watts would not power a very large battery charger, so charging would take a minimum of 60 hours according to this site.  (Based on a13 amp supply can feed a charger which takes 10 hours)

 

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

 

So unless they change the streetlights, Ssociated cabling and supply transformer for higher powered ones it looks unlikely to be viable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

No but temperature and CO2 were much higher and everything thrived. 

We can only solve our problems if we create them in the first place. 

 

Yes, it has indeed been higher in the past. So life can survive and thrive at higher temperatures. Those higher temperatures took a long time to arrive (millions of years) and life had time to migrate, adapt and evolve.

 

The important question is can life as we know it survive at those higher temperatures if we jump to them over a few decades or centuries, as seems to be likely to happen?

Edited by Onionman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Lets introduce some facts into the streetlight charging debate.

I'm under the impression the the reason it can be done is because of the change from the old lights to the new lights - that may or may not be the whole reason it's doable which is why I linked to the company to who are doing in - The technicalities of it maybe above my pay grade but that doesn't change the fact that it is being done and it is doing the job it was designed to do. 

 

12 minutes ago, cuthound said:

500 watts would not power a very large battery charger, so charging would take a minimum of 60 hours according to this site.  (Based on a13 amp supply can feed a charger which takes 10 hours)

 

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

 

So unless they change the streetlights, Ssociated cabling and supply transformer for higher powered ones it looks unlikely to be viable.

It was a nice touch to link to a site that links back to a site that I linked to earlier when I needed to explain how charging an electric car works. ?

11 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

Yes, it has indeed been higher in the past. So life can survive and thrive at higher temperatures. Those higher temperatures took a long time to arrive (millions of years) and life had time to migrate, adapt and evolve.

 

The important question is can life as we know it survive at those higher temperatures if we jump to them over a few decades or centuries, as seems to be likely to happen?

 

203_co2-graph-061219.jpg

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Lets introduce some facts into the streetlight charging debate.

 

According to this website https://www.quora.com/How-much-power-does-a-regular-street-light-consume, typical sodium discharge street light bulbs are rated at 100-500 watts (up to 2 amps at 230 volts), and there LED repacements are rated at 10-30 watts ( up to about 0.15 amps at 230 volts).

 

500 watts would not power a very large battery charger, so charging would take a minimum of 60 hours according to this site.  (Based on a13 amp supply can feed a charger which takes 10 hours)

 

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-understanding-electric-car-charging

 

So unless they change the streetlights, Ssociated cabling and supply transformer for higher powered ones it looks unlikely to be viable.

And yet they are doing it as quick Google shows

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

And yet they are doing it as quick Google shows

 

Yes you can attach a charger to a lamppost, but assuming that the supply is rated at 500 watts, the 500 watt sodium discharge bulb has been changed for a LED (as shown in my first link) then the charger will take 60 hours to charge an EV. 

 

So it is probably  "greenwash". There is a lot of money to be made from fooling the gullible.

 

You canna change the laws of physics captain. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes you can attach a charger to a lamppost, but assuming that the supply is rated at 500 watts, the 500 watt sodium discharge bulb has been changed for a LED (as shown in my first link) then the charger will take 60 hours to charge an EV. 

 

So it is probably  "greenwash". There is a lot of money to be made from fooling the gullible.

 

You canna change the laws of physics captain. ?

Or they have been rewired   streetlights are in purple ducts underground so maybe heavier cables have been installed or already installed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes you can attach a charger to a lamppost, but assuming that the supply is rated at 500 watts, the 500 watt sodium discharge bulb has been changed for a LED (as shown in my first link) then the charger will take 60 hours to charge an EV. 

 

So it is probably  "greenwash". There is a lot of money to be made from fooling the gullible.

 

You canna change the laws of physics captain. ?

But yet it's happening Scottie.... Concentrating on the LED aspect and trying to prove that wrong doesn't change the fact that they are putting chargers into lamp posts and they are doing the job of work they were set to do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tumshie said:

But yet it's happening Scottie.... Concentrating on the LED aspect and trying to prove that wrong doesn't change the fact that they are putting chargers into lamp posts and they are doing the job of work they were set to do. 

 

I'm not trying to prove its wrong. I'm pointing out the practicalities. It probably allows them to claim there are lots of chargers available, but doesnt tell you its limitations.

 

However if you arrived at one with an almost fully discharged battery, plugged your car in, went to an all day business meeting and then on your return found that your battery hadn't charged enough to get you all the way home again that evening would you be:

 

a) overjoyed and tell everyone how wonderful lamppost charging is, or,

 

b) fed up, and feeling that you had been cheated?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

But yet it's happening Scottie.... Concentrating on the LED aspect and trying to prove that wrong doesn't change the fact that they are putting chargers into lamp posts and they are doing the job of work they were set to do. 

That's an inconvenient truth though ?  I have been googling lithium recycling it appears that most get reused, but another site suggested that recycling was a lot higher than the 6%

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Or they have been rewired   streetlights are in purple ducts underground so maybe heavier cables have been installed or already installed?

 

Maybe, and that is the proper way to do it, but it doesn't come for free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

That's an inconvenient truth though ?  I have been googling lithium recycling it appears that most get reused, but another site suggested that recycling was a lot higher than the 6%

 

Yes there is some variability, so you need to ascertain who is promoting it. EV sites tend to say it is over 50%, but more impartial sites, (reports from universities and even some recycling companies) put it much lower.

 

The latest one I could find was on Wikipedia, which is not always impartial, but at least can be updated by those in the know) shows it at 19%.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_recycling

Edited by cuthound
Capitalisation
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes you can attach a charger to a lamppost, but assuming that the supply is rated at 500 watts, the 500 watt sodium discharge bulb has been changed for a LED (as shown in my first link) then the charger will take 60 hours to charge an EV. 

 

So it is probably  "greenwash". There is a lot of money to be made from fooling the gullible.

 

You canna change the laws of physics captain. ?

I agree. This puts it into perspective.   From this link.   https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_1004_charging_an_electric_vehicle

Level 3, charging a Tesla EV on a V2 station is the equivalent of 5 houses.  At level 2 looks interesting.

 

level 1 Level 1: 1.5kW typical

Cord-set connects to a regular household outlet of 115VAC, 15A (230VAC, ~6A in Europe). This singe-phase hookup produces about 1.5kW, and the charge time is 7 to 30 hours depending on battery size. Level 1 meets overnight charging needs for e-bikes, scooters, electric wheelchairs and PHEVs not exceeding 12kWh.

EV driving range per minute charge: 130m (426 feet)
 
level 2 Level 2: 7kW typical

Wall-mount; 230VAC, 30A two pole, charges a mid-sized EV in 4 to 5 hours. This is the most common home and public charging station for EVs. It produces about 7kW to feed the 6.6kW on-board EV charger. The cost to install a Level 2 EVSE is about $750 in materials and labor. Households with a 100A service should charge the EV after cooking and clothes-drying to prevent exceeding the allotted household power.

EV driving range per minute charge: 670m (2,200 feet)
 
level 3 Level 3: 50kW typical (Tesla V2 stations charge at 120kW)

DC Fast Charger; 400–600VDC, up to 300A; serves as ultra-fast charging by bypassing the on-board charger and feeding the power directly to the battery. Level 3 chargers deliver 50 kW of power than can go up to 120kW to fill a Li-ion battery to 80 percent in about 30 minutes. The power demand at 120kW is equal to five households.

EV driving range per minute charge at 50kW: 4.6km (2.9 miles)
 
level 4 Extra Fast Charge: 150kW; up to 400kW (Tesla V3 stations charge at 250kW)

400kW charging stations will charge at a voltage of up to 800VDC. This results in high component costs and high power demand equal to 16 households. The stress factor of ultra-fast charging on the battery also plays a role. If possible, charge at a more regular rate.  

EV range per minute charge at 400kW: 37km (23 miles) (30km Tesla)
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I'm not trying to prove its wrong. I'm pointing out the practicalities. It probably allows them to claim there are lots of chargers available, but doesnt tell you its limitations.

 

However if you arrived at one with an almost fully discharged battery, plugged your car in, went to an all day business meeting and then on your return found that your battery hadn't charged enough to get you all the way home again that evening would you be:

 

a) overjoyed and tell everyone how wonderful lamppost charging is, or,

 

b) fed up, and feeling that you had been cheated?

The problem is that you are debating what I said they were doing which is all very well and good if I have given you the whole story, I said what I believed to be a factual but condensed version of what I have read on the subject. But as this system of charging cars has been up and running in the real world and is doing what you say it can't do then that would suggest that either I don't have the full story for you or your maths is wrong, Which is it most likely to be? So while it might be fun to run it into the ground it might also be wise to double check with the source first. 

 

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

I agree. This puts it into perspective.   From this link.   https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_1004_charging_an_electric_vehicle

Level 3, charging a Tesla EV on a V2 station is the equivalent of 5 houses.  At level 2 looks interesting.

But you are still linking to an American site - the Americans have a slightly different charging system to us Europeans. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I'm not trying to prove its wrong. I'm pointing out the practicalities. It probably allows them to claim there are lots of chargers available, but doesnt tell you its limitations.

 

However if you arrived at one with an almost fully discharged battery, plugged your car in, went to an all day business meeting and then on your return found that your battery hadn't charged enough to get you all the way home again that evening would you be:

 

a) overjoyed and tell everyone how wonderful lamppost charging is, or,

 

b) fed up, and feeling that you had been cheated?

................  and you could drive around the streets for hours looking not only for a parking space, but also one that was close to a street light that was not already being used for charging (and of course one that was not within a residents' only parking zone).  

Edited by Murflynn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

................  and you could drive around the streets for hours looking not only for a parking space, but also one that was close to a street light that was not already being used for charging.

You could or you could win the lottery or be hit by lightning - all of the above are possible... 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tumshie said:

 

203_co2-graph-061219.jpg

 

Indeed, but if you go much further back CO2 has been higher as have temperatures.


So there's no doubt that life can survive but it had plenty of time to adapt as those maxima happened over millions and tens of millions of years. What's coming is (on a geological scale) going to be near instant and it's going to play havoc with life. A plant that can move its range and evolve over millennia to suit previous warm periods is not going to manage that if the predicted speed of change proves to be accurate and is decades or centuries. We need urgent action. Urgent. Burying your head in the sand will solve nothing.

 

 

Edited by Onionman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

Indeed, but if you go much further back CO2 has been higher as have temperatures.


So there's no doubt that life can survive but it had plenty of time to adapt as those maxima happened over millions and tens of millions of years. What's coming is (on a geological scale) going to be near instant and it's going to play havoc with life. A plant that can move its range and evolve over millennia to suit previous warm periods is not going to manage that if the predicted speed of change proves to be accurate and is decades or centuries. We need urgent action. Urgent. Burying your head in the sand will solve nothing.

 

 

it should also be remembered that homo sapiens evolved and then colonised most of the planet during, and to a large extent as a result of, the environmental conditions that existed at that time.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

The problem is that you are debating what I said they were doing which is all very well and good if I have given you the whole story, I said what I believed to be a factual but condensed version of what I have read on the subject. But as this system of charging cars has been up and running in the real world and is doing what you say it can't do then that would suggest that either I don't have the full story for you or your maths is wrong, Which is it most likely to be? So while it might be fun to run it into the ground it might also be wise to double check with the source first. 

 

But you are still linking to an American site - the Americans have a slightly different charging system to us Europeans. ?

Please do tell what different charging systems they have. The US has 110volt mains and we have 240volt if that's what you mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.