2 weeks boating in my electric boat

[peterboat]

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Is that really the case?

 

A quick google suggests the last time it was this high was 415,000 years ago. 

 

http://www.planetforlife.com/co2history/index.html

 

Virtual greenie Mike good link looking at it the dodah we are in is very deep

[Tumshie]

Just now, nb Innisfree said:

I don't deny it but I do question it

 

Your idea of denial and mine might not quite be the same

[peterboat]

19 minutes ago, frangar said:

I suspect I will long gone before this affects me....and I’m not going to stress about giving up my boat anytime soon unless the tree huggers & dogooders decide to go for an easy target...as said at the start of this thread air travel should be banned first. 

 

While people are allowed to reproduce as they wish anything else is just masking the true cause of too many people on a small planet. 

cleaner replacement biofuel is available I am all for using that until electric takes over

[StephenA]

Everyone is going on  about EVs - that's all well and good but if electric is going to be the way forward for canal boating then either we need a huge investment in infrastructure for charging or we need a radical evolution in the technology so its possible to move a 20+ tonne canal boat at 2-3 mph for more than a couple of hours. That technology might come from the EV market or it might not if the EV market decides the easy fix is a lot more charging points rather than a major increase in distance per charge.  The boating market is a small market, it will always have a tiny market share when it comes to electrical propulsion so there is no incentive for any manufacturer to spend money developing a solution because the ROI is just too small (or the product would be too expensive)

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

All this talk of climate change destroying life on Earth makes me wonder how it's survived 4 billion years with such a delicate 'knife edge' ecosystem. 

some form of life will always survive, even if it is just cockroaches.

 

dinosaurs once ruled the world, but were wiped out in next to no time by a change in environmental conditions; humans could follow suit if we don't get it right - it might just take a few generations rather than a few minutes in the case of the dinos.  If the infrastructure we have built up collapses, perhaps we will just revert to being a dwindling population of primitives without the skills to survive.

[Tumshie]

26 minutes ago, StephenA said:

Everyone is going on  about EVs - that's all well and good but if electric is going to be the way forward for canal boating then either we need a huge investment in infrastructure for charging or we need a radical evolution in the technology so its possible to move a 20+ tonne canal boat at 2-3 mph for more than a couple of hours. That technology might come from the EV market or it might not if the EV market decides the easy fix is a lot more charging points rather than a major increase in distance per charge.  The boating market is a small market, it will always have a tiny market share when it comes to electrical propulsion so there is no incentive for any manufacturer to spend money developing a solution because the ROI is just too small (or the product would be too expensive)

Except Tesla I don't know of any car companies that have their own charging, Nissan invested heavily in other peoples companies to make sure that an infrastructure was in place for their cars but the car companies themselves are using range as a selling tool; they're constantly pushing technology to increase the range the car can cover in one charge and the ability of the batteries to cope with faster and faster charging when away from home. 

 

If the government want people to have electric boats the yes a network full of charging points will have to go in, I suspect this will likely happen in bigger towns where lots of boats are mooring in one place so that they don't need run their engines to charge batteries and heat water. But I couldn't begin to guess what it wold take to put in a complete network of chargers. 

 

The drive train of the electric car is commonly referred to as a skateboard because of its shape there is absolutely no reason why a skateboard from a car couldn't be put into a boat, it may or may not need to be modified but that's way above my pay grade. Are the car companies gonna do it - no they probably don't care that narrowboats exist but boat builders could. 

 

Ex-race driver Richard Morgan is converting non-electric cars to electric so I suppose if you were mechanical you could do the same for a boat and have much more boating range that currently seems to be available but if you weren't doing it with a new build it would likely be a case of ripping up the flooring to get the skateboard laid which is hardly cost effective. https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk

 

[Onionman]

3 hours ago, Flyboy said:

No single Tesla S has done 10,000 charging cycles.  10,000 cycles equates to recharging everyday for approx 28 years. You seem to think I'm against the technology, I'm not, it's just not proven technology yet.

 

And in other news, scientists have revealed the way they calculate how much weight bridges can take. What they do is drive heavier and heavier lorries over them until they collapse. Then they know the maximum weight and they rebuild them. Simple.

5 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Your £2500 set of batteries will only last a tiny fraction of the lifespan of your diesel engine. The carbon footprint of producing all these batteries will probably exceed that of your diesel engine with your cruising pattern.

 

Your evidence? What's the carbon footprint of a diesel engine?

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

Everyone is going on  about EVs - that's all well and good but if electric is going to be the way forward for canal boating then either we need a huge investment in infrastructure for charging or we need a radical evolution in the technology so its possible to move a 20+ tonne canal boat at 2-3 mph for more than a couple of hours. That technology might come from the EV market or it might not if the EV market decides the easy fix is a lot more charging points rather than a major increase in distance per charge.  The boating market is a small market, it will always have a tiny market share when it comes to electrical propulsion so there is no incentive for any manufacturer to spend money developing a solution because the ROI is just too small (or the product would be too expensive)

Afraid not Cedric Lynch chief engineer of saitta is looking at a cheap complete drop in system,  James and myself have been chatting to him about it and he thinks it's a goer. Google him he is a very clever dedicated to electricity propulsion engineer. 

As for range my 33 ton boat goes 4-5 hours on a full charge and sun sharing much longer 

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

Imagine a world of EVs and someone coming up with an alternative, ICE vehicles, naysayers would point to the complicated infrastructure required, fuelling stations everywhere kept supplied with lorries belching diesel fumes. Vehicles would need frequent oil changes, complicated engine management systems and a complex arrangement of clutches and gears to transmit power to the wheels. It will never happen. 

 

Err, at the dawn of motoring EV's were more common than ICE vehicles. The public chose ICE vehicles for much the same reasons as today, however the gap between them is finally closing.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

 

There is nothing new under the sun! ?

[Flyboy]

This makes interesting reading.   https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon

[TrippinAround]

4 hours ago, Murflynn said:

snip/

On a slightly different topic, how will the masses who park their car in the street in the nearest available space, which is sometimes a few doors down from where they live, manage to charge their vehicles, and even if parked in allocated slots outside their own house how will the charging leads be protected where they cross the pavement?   Will we see overhead gantries poking out from terraced houses over the pavement, dropping the lead down to the car?

 

Some vehicles may never be able to charge in the street and will have to use charge points. But charging time will improve. Perhaps some will charge via wireless underground charge points. It will take time to find the best systems.

6 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Your £2500 set of batteries will only last a tiny fraction of the lifespan of your diesel engine. The carbon footprint of producing all these batteries will probably exceed that of your diesel engine with your cruising pattern.

Batteries can be recycled. Also some car manufactures are planning to put used car batteries into grid storage so get more life out of them before recycling.

[TrippinAround]

30 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

This makes interesting reading.   https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon

It is an article quoting a study paid for by an automobile group and not published in any scientific paper. There are already articles debunking the study, go figure.

The first thing I do when reading any article is look for a bias or lack of checking on the part of the author. Most just want clicks and accuracy is not a big part of journalism these days sadly.

 

https://electrek.co/2019/04/22/study-electric-cars-dirtier-diesel-debunked/

 

When more batteries are recycled the CO2 will be further reduced.

Edited August 17, 2019 by jakk
Added recycling.

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, jakk said:

It is an article quoting a study paid for by an automobile group and not published in any scientific paper. There are already articles debunking the study, go figure.

The first thing I do when reading any article is look for a bias or lack of checking on the part of the author. Most just want clicks and accuracy is not a big part of journalism these days sadly.

 

https://electrek.co/2019/04/22/study-electric-cars-dirtier-diesel-debunked/

So you are saying that all the claims put out by the makers of EV's should be dismissed as bunkum as they have a vested interest in promoting their product ?

Edited August 17, 2019 by Flyboy

[Graham Davis]

5 hours ago, Tumshie said:

https://www.ubitricity.co.uk/residential_charging/how-to-charge/

Great! NOT.

12 houses in our street, none with on-site garages, only 1 with a front hard standing, so the rest of us have to park in the street, and only 2 street lamps, 1 at each end.
Not going to work, is it?

And to balance that comment, the Car Club CIC of which I am a Director have just leased a new Renault Zoe. 

[StephenA]

43 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Great! NOT.

12 houses in our street, none with on-site garages, only 1 with a front hard standing, so the rest of us have to park in the street, and only 2 street lamps, 1 at each end.
Not going to work, is it?

And to balance that comment, the Car Club CIC of which I am a Director have just leased a new Renault Zoe. 

And everyone goes to bed, the local scrotes come along and unplug all the cars.......

[peterboat]

8 minutes ago, StephenA said:

And everyone goes to bed, the local scrotes come along and unplug all the cars.......

They have to be unlocked the makers thought of that one

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, StephenA said:

And everyone goes to bed, the local scrotes come along and unplug all the cars.......

 

Or worse, unplug and run an extension lead into a nearby house to run the tumble dryer all night...

[Tumshie]

48 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Great! NOT.

Would you like some cheese with that whine - it's one solution, just one. It's not the solution for your street but it is in others. 

 

9 minutes ago, StephenA said:

And everyone goes to bed, the local scrotes come along and unplug all the cars.......

When you plug the charger in it locks and can't be removed until you personally unlock it and unplug it - will that stop every local scrote possibly not but they would have to make quite an effort to vandalise it. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

They have to be unlocked the makers thought of that one

 

I'm sure that yellow wire could be carefully sliced open and tapped into....

 

Or four young male vandals might decide to see how hard they can pull the cable at 1.00am before it comes out!

[Tumshie]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

I'm sure that yellow wire could be carefully sliced open and tapped into....

Or four young male vandals might decide to see how hard they can pull the cable at 1.00am before it comes out!

And by 2 minutes past they'll have all fallen over each other into a crumpled heap on the floor and by 4 minutes past they'll have stopped laughing and swearing and been distracted by something else that their alcohol oodled brains thinks is a shiny amusing laugh. 

 

[TrippinAround]

5 hours ago, Flyboy said:

So you are saying that all the claims put out by the makers of EV's should be dismissed as bunkum as they have a vested interest in promoting their product ?

I am saying think about what you are reading.

[TrippinAround]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm sure that yellow wire could be carefully sliced open and tapped into....

 

Or four young male vandals might decide to see how hard they can pull the cable at 1.00am before it comes out!

I would pay to watch that splicing. ? Some of those chargers are at 400-800 volts. 

[cuthound]

As it seems they cannot meet their claimed mileage range it would seem so.

 

Best believe independent test reports instead.

[Flyboy]

11 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Great! NOT.

12 houses in our street, none with on-site garages, only 1 with a front hard standing, so the rest of us have to park in the street, and only 2 street lamps, 1 at each end.
Not going to work, is it?

And to balance that comment, the Car Club CIC of which I am a Director have just leased a new Renault Zoe. 

There is a lamp post near me with the side cover missing. The wiring inside is 1.5 sq mm, how is this going to supply 7Kw. ?  I can't see the local authorites upgrading all the lighting cabling any time soon.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

There is a lamp post near me with the side cover missing. The wiring inside is 1.5 sq mm, how is this going to supply 7Kw. ?  I can't see the local authorites upgrading all the lighting cabling any time soon.

 

By running at 800v as jakk says?

 

This seems unlikely to me here in the UK. In south America where he is, possibly.