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2 weeks boating in my electric boat


peterboat

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9 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Stop being a plonker you more than anybody knows that all electric motors produce heat I think even a superconducter one does if I remember from the article I read

what about adding company cars into the mix?

 

Of course electric motors aren't  100% efficient, but they are tyically 90% efficient, compared to 40% for a diesel engine. So, assuming similar power ratings, there is 30% less heat available for the heater.

 

I think you will find most use small electric heaters.

 

"Electric cars generate next to no heat as opposed to conventional passenger vehicles, which produce more than enough engine heat to heat the interior. An additional electric heater is required. This is supplied with power by the same battery that provides the engine with energy"

 

https://phys.org/news/2015-09-efficient-electric-cars.html

 

Most companies still buy diesel cars. Hard to beat in terms of productivity as refuelling takes less thsn 5 minutes per day, even for some e driving 500 miles a day.

 

 

Edited by cuthound
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1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Of course electric motors aren't  100% efficient, but they are tyically 90% efficient, compared to 40% for a diesel engine. So, assuming similar power ratings, there is 30% less heat available for the heater.

 

I think you will find most use small electric heaters.

 

"Electric cars generate next to no heat as opposed to conventional passenger vehicles, which produce more than enough engine heat to heat the interior. An additional electric heater is required. This is supplied with power by the same battery that provides the engine with energy"

 

https://phys.org/news/2015-09-efficient-electric-cars.html

 

 

I think they are behind the times

image.png.9d29c870b5feb5761457ba07fe6c3845.png

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

I often do 200 miles and more. Has anyone done a GENUINE test on one of these 200 mile range cars yet????? In january, freezing weather with rain? Heater on, blower on, HRW on, air con on to stop misting, headlights and wipers on full time?? Somehow I doubt it.

I'd be surprised if they hadn't. There are countless reviews of EVs on websites and on YouTube and I'd be amazed if some of these didn't cover the circumstances you describe.

 

 

I haven't bothered looking for them but I expect they would identify a significant range reduction but not so much that "only short journeys are possible". That was the statement by Flyboy that I was disputing.

 

 

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lily Rose
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4 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

I'd be surprised if they hadn't. There are countless reviews of EVs on websites and on YouTube and I'd be amazed if some of these didn't cover the circumstances you describe.

 

 

I haven't bothered looking for them but I expect they would identify a significant range reduction but not so much that "only short journeys are possible". That was the statement by Flyboy that I was disputing.

 

 

I'd be surprised if they hadn't. There are countless reviews of EVs on websites and on YouTube and I'd be amazed if some of these didn't cover the circumstances you describe.

 

 

I haven't bothered looking for them but I expect they would identify a significant range reduction but not so much that "only short journeys are possible". That was the statement by Flyboy that I was disputing.

 

 

 

Anything up to third reduction according to this, and the article didn't say if they had lights and wipers on as well as heating or air conditioning, so probably not.

 

https://leasing.com/car-leasing-news/electric-vehicle-range-in-winter/

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2 hours ago, Onionman said:

 

Here's Quentin Willson driving a Tesla model 3 on a journey from London to Stratford-upon-Avon and back on a charge. At 70-75 mph.

 

 

He didn't actually do it there and back on one charge as you say. He recharged it at Warwick services, so we don't know if he would have completed the return trip even if the charge guage said he could.

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3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Anything up to third reduction according to this, and the article didn't say if they had lights and wipers on as well as heating or air conditioning, so probably not.

 

https://leasing.com/car-leasing-news/electric-vehicle-range-in-winter/

Still doesn't turn a 200m+ range car into one that can only do short journeys. 

 

For my circumstances it would still be fine for just about every journey I do and my longest journeys don't happen in winter anyway. But that's me, I'm not saying such a car would be fine for you or any other particular person.

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1 minute ago, cuthound said:

Assuming I could afford an electric car that could do 200 miles. It wpuld syit most of my needs except once every month or so i do 350 miles in a day.

 

 

I could afford one but I couldn't justify one, as much as I'd love to have one.

 

As much in favour of them as I am, I'm not spending £35k (or whatever) on a Kia eNiro (for example) whilst my 2005 C-Max diesel (mine from new as a company car until I bought it when I took voluntary redundancy in 2008) continues to give me dirt cheap and reliable motoring. 

 

When it eventually gives up on me I'll have another think about it.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

I could afford one but I couldn't justify one, as much as I'd love to have one.

 

As much in favour of them as I am, I'm not spending £35k (or whatever) on a Kia eNiro (for example) whilst my 2005 C-Max diesel (mine from new as a company car until I bought it when I took voluntary redundancy in 2008) continues to give me dirt cheap and reliable motoring. 

 

When it eventually gives up on me I'll have another think about it.

 

 

 

Yes, I had no problems justifying £60k on a boat, but couldnt justify anything like that on a car.

 

In the present climate it is not clear to me how range will improve or indeed what technology will prevail.

 

So I will keep my Yeti until it become uneconomical to do so and see how the land lies then.

 

Edited by cuthound
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9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes, I had no problems justifying £60k on a boat, but couldnt justify anything like that on a car.

 

In the present climate it is not clear to me how range will improve or indeed what technology will prevail.

 

So I will keep my Yeti until it become uneconomical to do so and see how the land lies then.

 

Good point about the boat. The difference, I suppose, is that when I bought the boat I didn't already have a perfectly adequate boat.

 

I do have a perfectly adequate car for my needs.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

He didn't actually do it there and back on one charge as you say. He recharged it at Warwick services, so we don't know if he would have completed the return trip even if the charge guage said he could.

 

No he didn't. Jesus.

 

It's almost as if you don't want cars to have a genuine 250 mile range so you can bang on about how bad change is.

 

I genuinely despair for the country when so many people apparently hate change.

 

 

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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

That applies to the Tesla, most electric cars use electric heaters. I guess you get what you pay for. ?

Nissan leaf has a heat pump and so do a lot of other electric cars resistive heating is the odd man out now days. Most use heat pumps and motor/battery heat to for the cabin, plus you can preheat the car at the touch of a button either of the battery or from the mains

image.png.0ad261994bc4826e6aac38a5f4b80d69.png

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2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Nissan leaf has a heat pump and so do a lot of other electric cars resistive heating is the odd man out now days. Most use heat pumps and motor/battery heat to for the cabin, plus you can preheat the car at the touch of a button either of the battery or from the mains

image.png.0ad261994bc4826e6aac38a5f4b80d69.png

 

And the heat pump is driven by?...

 

Although I accept it will be more efficient than resistive heating.

Edited by cuthound
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2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

He didn't actually do it there and back on one charge as you say. He recharged it at Warwick services, so we don't know if he would have completed the return trip even if the charge guage said he could.

No he didnt he plugged it in to see how long it would take to charge it to full and then disconnected it

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10 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No he didnt he plugged it in to see how long it would take to charge it to full and then disconnected it

 

Well that was a fkkn STUPID thing to do in the middle of a trip being promoted to test the range of a EV on a real life journey.

 

Talk about undermining your own case.

 

 

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1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

And the heat pump is driven by?...

not by the system that your link referred to and again once the motors are producing heat they use it. I think Chevy bolts use resistive heating and so does my  Aixam mega truck but dont know of others,

I watched a video and a 15 minute preheat was two miles of range, but most preheat from the mains, in reality when you are preheating and scraping the windscreen on your car how much fuel does that use?

11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Well that was a fkkn STUPID thing to do in the middle of a trip being promoted to test the range of a EV on a real life journey.

 

Talk about undermining your own case.

 

 

It did show his range hadnt increased and he told everybody what he had done and why he did it

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6 hours ago, catweasel said:

Agree with all of that except the underlined part. I think that the technology is there, but too expensive yet. It will be available much quicker than we think providing the need exists. 

But where will the incentive to make this EV technology available to canal boaters?

 

Take this article

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48956000

 

The cost of installing a ex Tesla drive train into a classic car is £20,000 or more

 

That's the whole thing that bothers me about all of this - yes the technology is available or will be available soon, but the implementation costs and the infrastructure costs are prohibitive - the market isn't exactly large after all so economies of scale just wont apply.

52 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Nissan leaf has a heat pump and so do a lot of other electric cars resistive heating is the odd man out now days. Most use heat pumps and motor/battery heat to for the cabin, plus you can preheat the car at the touch of a button either of the battery or from the mains

image.png.0ad261994bc4826e6aac38a5f4b80d69.png

How well does a heat pump work when the outside air temperature is several degrees below zero?

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2 minutes ago, StephenA said:

But where will the incentive to make this EV technology available to canal boaters?

 

Take this article

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48956000

 

The cost of installing a ex Tesla drive train into a classic car is £20,000 or more

 

That's the whole thing that bothers me about all of this - yes the technology is available or will be available soon, but the implementation costs and the infrastructure costs are prohibitive - the market isn't exactly large after all so economies of scale just wont apply.

You could do it yourself look at the DIY electric car forum really good stuff

6 minutes ago, StephenA said:

But where will the incentive to make this EV technology available to canal boaters?

 

Take this article

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48956000

 

The cost of installing a ex Tesla drive train into a classic car is £20,000 or more

 

That's the whole thing that bothers me about all of this - yes the technology is available or will be available soon, but the implementation costs and the infrastructure costs are prohibitive - the market isn't exactly large after all so economies of scale just wont apply.

How well does a heat pump work when the outside air temperature is several degrees below zero?

image.jpeg.df38cf5da12366fa92c9308a4c13e16a.jpeg
Since heat pumps extract heat from the air, their efficiency depends on outdoor temperatures. Less heat in the air meant that the heat pump has to work harder to collect the available heat. High-end efficient machines can extract heat down to temperatures as low as -20°C and even lower in some instances.5 Feb 2018
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2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

You could do it yourself look at the DIY electric car forum really good stuff

Yes maybe I could  - if I could afford it.

 

The thing is a significant number of people can't do it.

 

I'd love the idea of a drop in replacement for my old BMC. I can drop in a third party engine for a few K. I can't drop in a complete electric replacement for a few K

5 minutes ago, peterboat said:

You could do it yourself look at the DIY electric car forum really good stuff

image.jpeg.df38cf5da12366fa92c9308a4c13e16a.jpeg
Since heat pumps extract heat from the air, their efficiency depends on outdoor temperatures. Less heat in the air meant that the heat pump has to work harder to collect the available heat. High-end efficient machines can extract heat down to temperatures as low as -20°C and even lower in some instances.5 Feb 2018

Yes - but are the heat pumps that you get in cars (and would need in a boat to heat the water) high end efficient?  We have heat pumps at work from a major a/c brand and they struggle in the middle of winter.

 

I'm not sure what the significance of the bolding is

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3 minutes ago, StephenA said:

Yes maybe I could  - if I could afford it.

 

The thing is a significant number of people can't do it.

 

I'd love the idea of a drop in replacement for my old BMC. I can drop in a third party engine for a few K. I can't drop in a complete electric replacement for a few K

Mine less the batteries cost less than 1K

Edited by peterboat
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54 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Well that was a fkkn STUPID thing to do in the middle of a trip being promoted to test the range of a EV on a real life journey.

 

Talk about undermining your own case.

 

 

At 7 minutes he makes it crystal clear it wasn't charged there. It was presumably plugged in long enough to show on the car's screen how long a recharge would take. How does that undermine his case? Only if you're desperate for him to be wrong about the car being OK for the journey.

 

Amazes me how people don't want this to be a technology that works.

 

I can't understand why but this site seems to be full of people keen for things never to improve if it means change.

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14 minutes ago, Onionman said:

At 7 minutes he makes it crystal clear it wasn't charged there. It was presumably plugged in long enough to show on the car's screen how long a recharge would take. How does that undermine his case? Only if you're desperate for him to be wrong about the car being OK for the journey.

 

Amazes me how people don't want this to be a technology that works.

 

I can't understand why but this site seems to be full of people keen for things never to improve if it means change.

 

 

I DIDN'T WATCH THE VIDEO, I was relying on peterboat's comment that he plugged it in to see how long it took to recharge.

 

I would love it to work but will only get one once I have cut through all the exaggeration and bollux written on here about the subject.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, catweasel said:

Agree with all of that except the underlined part. I think that the technology is there, but too expensive yet. It will be available much quicker than we think providing the need exists. 

I'd say that the science is there but not the technology. The latter is about meeting all the specifications, technical, regulatory and economic. 

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